Register

Crazy Attack Doe

Understand why your rabbits behave the way they do - and what you can do about it.
3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 42
Joined: February 2, 2016
Location: Western MA
United States of America Female
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 3 in 1 post
BunnyBucks: 292.00

Crazy Attack Doe

Post Number:#1  Unread postby Kenzierey » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:10 am


So I got a breeding trio on the 15th. Some Cali Does and an American Chin Junior Buck. The guy I got them from was apparently some amazing breeder who's "rabbits show very well and everyone goes to him from different places in the country". He charged a pretty penny and I do not even know why I went along with it. He kind of tricked me into buying them.. I asked a couple times over the phone how much the rabbits were going to cost and he would always dance around the subject.."uhhh it depends on how many you buy..blah blah BS." I should not have even gotten these rabbits in the first place. I should have just waited for some cheapo meat mutts but I really wanted some great producers. And there has been NO meat breeds around. But he was extremely pushy and honestly a little scary. When we got there and he told us how much they were (I am embarrassed to say $50) we quickly changed our minds and told him we did not want the rabbits. He instantly kind of flipped and was like "you said on the phone you would take two girls I have had people asking from all over for them and I held them for you, you have to take the two girls!" (No I didn't promise).. Now I am a 21 year old girl and this was a (probably 40 year old) man basically yelling at me to take them. So I so foolishly agreed.

Then he goes to take them out of there cage..By the ears. Just yanks them out and tossed both the does in some of his bucks' cages to get them bred for me and start them off. One of them would not take. One did. The one that would not take was making so much noise and grunting and she was obviously miserable.

We got them home and set up in the cages...They were terrified obviously.. So I gave them time to settle in. Days later, the one that did not take to being bred was still grunting and making weird noises whenever we were near. And if we touched her she would harden up like a basketball and just grunt grunt grunt away.

By the end of the week she was starting to calm down and not freak out when we touched her.

Then one day I went in her cage to spot clean and when I stuck my hands in there, she charged me. With her front feet and mouth. I was able to pull my hands away in time... I went and told my boyfriend and he didn't believe me so he tested it out. Put his hand in, didn't move it at all and she charged him as well and grabbed his hand and bit. He was bleeding pretty badly.

We thought it was a fluke, maybe something had her on edge or scared her. But nope, it's now days later and she has gotten so bad that when we even just walk into the rabbitry now she immediately charges at me from inside of her cage. She blocks the door and won't let anyone come near. She is scary as hell and I am now done with even trying to feed her. I make my boyfriend do it. She keeps getting worse and worse. We have tried not moving when she attacks (well my boyfriend has, screw that) and she just would repeatedly attack his hand and not seem to back off. We tried making a noise to scare her a little when she would attack. That seems to make her absolutely insane. She looks like she is gonna jump out of the cage at your face when you try to make a noise.

I do not know what to do...If this was any other rabbit who didn't cost so much freaking money then she would have been gone by now... I have been trying to decide what to do for a while now. Every time I go to text the guy to ask for my money back and bring her back to him, I get nervous and delete it. I don't think he would take kindly to that at all. And It's probably almost worth it to not ever have to deal with this man again. I feel jipped and very stupid but I also know that this will be a very good learning experience for me. So I am trying to keep that in the back of my mind.

So she very well might be our first rabbit dinner on our little farm. I really really hate to just lose out on that money but then I think again how I would drop $50 bucks on a dinner or at the bar so quickly and not even think about it...and at least I will be learning something and getting a good meal out of her.

I am thinking that this would actually be a perfect first slaughter because I sort of hate this rabbit. I know that sounds mean and I have never "hated" an animal before but yeah I think I am starting to hate her. LOL Even though I do feel bad for her..

As for the other two, the preggo one is super sweet and great and the boy is the cutest thing ever. He is so sweet. But an amazing escape artist. We have to make him a new cage this weekend but nearly everyday we go out there he is out of his cage. Good thing hes a good lil' boy and just chills around the barn... I do notice that these rabbits are terrified when you go to touch their heads. The breeder would seriously yank on their ears so I am really not surprised. But it makes me sad every time I see them flinch like that. The two nice ones are slowly coming out of that though and are warming up to us very quickly. So at least there is some good coming out of this awful experience.

Site Supporter
5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 2809
Joined: August 11, 2014
Location: Idabel, OK
Thanks: 58
Thanked: 718 in 586 posts
BunnyBucks: 15,234.00

Re: Crazy Attack Doe

Post Number:#2  Unread postby alforddm » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:19 pm


There are too many nice or at least nonaggressive rabbits in this world to worry about getting your hand bit off when you try to feed or care for her. Eat her and save back a doe (or two or three) from the sweet rabbit.

Congratulations on your new rabbits btw. I'm sorry your buying experience was a bit traumatizing.

7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership
Posts: 590
Joined: January 8, 2012
Location: md
Thanks: 25
Thanked: 49 in 48 posts
BunnyBucks: 3,365.00

Re: Crazy Attack Doe

Post Number:#3  Unread postby a7736100 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:24 pm


"rabbits show very well and everyone goes to him from different places in the country". Is that what he told you or was it for real?

Anyway I have a doe that was aggressive but probably not as bad as yours. I was going to cull her but she's now less aggressive. Now after couple months when I'm able to put my hand on her back she flatten as if she was ready to breed. I'm still afraid of her but will not cull her for the time being. I'm really on guard when I feed her and try to have something between her and me.

Maybe if you use thick leather gloves when handling her she might come around in a month or two.

Moderator
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 18729
Joined: November 3, 2011
Location: CA
United States of America Female
Thanks: 1051
Thanked: 2485 in 1981 posts
BunnyBucks: 87,563.00

Re: Crazy Attack Doe

Post Number:#4  Unread postby MamaSheepdog » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:31 pm


Kenzierey wrote:When we got there and he told us how much they were (I am embarrassed to say $50)


$50 is not really that much for a good quality rabbit. That is my minimum price.

Kenzierey wrote:Some Cali Does and an American Chin Junior Buck. The guy I got them from was apparently some amazing breeder who's "rabbits show very well and everyone goes to him from different places in the country".


I find it odd that he sold you a mixed trio... that's fine for a first generation cross (oftentimes "hybrid vigor" gives you faster growth) but that is lost in the second generation. I would have gotten a trio of the same breed, with pedigrees, so I had the option to sell purebred offspring.

Kenzierey wrote:He instantly kind of flipped and was like "you said on the phone you would take two girls I have had people asking from all over for them and I held them for you, you have to take the two girls!" (No I didn't promise).. Now I am a 21 year old girl and this was a (probably 40 year old) man basically yelling at me to take them. So I so foolishly agreed.


Understandable- I don't like confrontation either. But take this as a life lesson, and approach future transactions differently. "I need a ballpark figure before deciding if the trip is worthwhile. What is your price range? Do you give discounts for multiple animals?"

Kenzierey wrote:Then he goes to take them out of there cage..By the ears.


Yikes! :x Did he at least support their bodies as well? I have seen some people pull a rabbit by the ears just to get it to move forward in the cage, but never picking them up by the ears alone.

Kenzierey wrote:One of them would not take. One did.


Same thing happened here yesterday! I traded an unpedigreed trio for two copper Maran hens and a roo (with a few Auracana chicks pending!) to a neighbor yesterday. Only managed to get one doe bred.

That was a nice thing for him to do for you- he may have been crotchety, but he was trying to give you a good start.

Kenzierey wrote:The one that would not take was making so much noise and grunting and she was obviously miserable.


That is not uncommon. Even does that eventually lift will sometimes be very vocal, especially maidens.

Kenzierey wrote:Days later, the one that did not take to being bred was still grunting and making weird noises whenever we were near.


I have had maiden does do the same thing- they are pretty good at holding a grudge. It makes you feel like a promoter of rape. ;)

Kenzierey wrote:And if we touched her she would harden up like a basketball and just grunt grunt grunt away.


Some rabbit lines are more high strung than others. My Satins also do that (sans the grunting) and as a result do very well on the show tables. They feel rock hard, indicating excellent muscle tone and condition.

Kenzierey wrote:Then one day I went in her cage to spot clean and when I stuck my hands in there, she charged me. With her front feet and mouth.


Part of this may be because you are new to rabbits and aren't projecting a confident air when handling them. I had a similar experience with a doe when I was just starting out- she was one of my first homebred does, and earned herself the name "Evil Blue" as a result. With a lot of work, she eventually came around. :)

She may also be hormonal and needs to be bred.

Kenzierey wrote:I do not know what to do...If this was any other rabbit who didn't cost so much freaking money then she would have been gone by now... I have been trying to decide what to do for a while now.


Breed her. When mammals give birth and are lactating, they release prolactin which is a hormone that helps them to bond with their young. It produces a "loving euphoria" in the mother, and is commonly known as the "feel good hormone". If you pet and interact with her during the first days after kindling, she will connect that feeling to you, and the effect will last even after she is no longer producing prolactin.

In the meantime I would work with her- the approach below is one I wrote in another "Aggressive Rabbit" thread, which you can read in its entirety here: post180321.html



My approach to fearful or aggressive rabbits is a bit different than most people here on RT. Let me preface this by saying that I have never had a truly aggressive rabbit, just grumpy ones.

Wear gloves and preferably a heavy shirt. For moving her you may want to wear a quilted flannel that you can remove when you are working with her so you don't die of heat exhaustion. ;) You want to be well protected so you can exude confidence instead of fear and hesitation.

I would take her out of the cage every day for the next few days. The way I pick up my rabbits is by grasping their shoulders and pushing down gently toward the floor. I then slide my other hand under the belly and lift while pushing the shoulder holding hand toward the hand holding the belly. You may want to have your thumb on the outside of her thigh, with the rest of your hand under her belly so you can "stretch" her if she starts to kick.

As soon as you have her out of the cage, tuck her into your body. If you are wearing an open button-down shirt, tuck her head underneath it so she can't see while you carry her to a grooming table. When you start to set her down, do not do so if she starts to kick. Lift her back up and try again until she stops struggling. Once she is on the table, keep your hand on her shoulders and pet her until she relaxes a bit.

I like to spend 5-10 minutes grooming them after that. I have Rex, so I mist them with water or a combo of vinegar and water. Stroke her firmly from head to tail and tail to head. It is like a "bunny massage" and she should get to enjoy it.

Practice lifting her up and setting her down several times as outlined above.

When returning her to her cage, make sure to put her in rump first so she doesn't try to jump from your hands back into the cage. Again, hold her by her shoulders until she relaxes before letting her go. Be sure to have a tasty treat for her. Fresh greens, a small slice of apple, a bit of carrot, or some dry bread are good choices. If she wont take it from your hand, just set it in the cage for her.

Some rabbits are aggressive when at chest level, so you may also try moving her to a cage that is closer to the ground. If she is stressed by something in her environment, giving her a hiding place is a great idea. You could also cover the top and two or three sides with cardboard. Use zip ties to secure it to the outside of the cage.
Victory Garden Rabbits

Image

Proud new owner of the highly coveted Get-away-with-it-card! (Homer's gift to me in a feeble attempt to curry favor and avoid the ban hammer.)

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. - Thomas Jefferson

The following user would like to thank MamaSheepdog for this post
a7736100

Site Supporter
5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 735
Joined: February 15, 2014
Location: Austria
Austria
Thanks: 100
Thanked: 238 in 183 posts
BunnyBucks: 4,037.00

Re: Crazy Attack Doe

Post Number:#5  Unread postby Preitler » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:00 pm


Did you try to win her over with treats? It's amazing how bribable rabbits are.

It takes some patience, place something yummy in front of her, small piece of bread, fruit she likes, or whatever. Do that for some days every time you go to your rabbits, before feeding. Then keep it in your hand and wait for some minutes, don't look directly at the rabbit. If she doesn't come to get it just put it there and leave.
If she comes eventually, let go of the treat when she snatches it, later hold on to it for some time.

This guy seems to handle rabbits in a way that can ruin even genetically good rabbits, me, being somewhat too patient sometimes :? , wouldn't throw the towel right away, would give her about month of that to get the clue.

My rabbits seem not to notice or care if I wear gloves or not, so that's an option.

Site Supporter
6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6192
Joined: October 6, 2013
Location: northwest PA
United States of America
Thanks: 1740
Thanked: 1626 in 1326 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,923.00

Re: Crazy Attack Doe

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Zass » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:08 pm


:twisted: <- Devil's advocate role accepted.

I do agree that $50 isn't too much, IF they came with pedigrees and are good rabbits.

Do the treat thing with gloves on at first. I've had the type that will bite in an attempt to get you to drop the treat.

I prefer to raise my own does, or else buy them close to 8 weeks. That way I know that it was only me who influenced their behavioral development.

If they ever decide to hit puberty and then go crazy, I will not breed them to settle them down, because I do not need lines that must be bred to not bite human hands. I don't have those kind of rabbits here now, and I never want them again.

I have children, my relatives have special needs children. I like that no one has to worry about being bitten. I handle all my rabbits without gloves, and with arms bare.
I can sell pets without fear. This is a big deal to me, because I feel that antisocial animals are more likely to end up abandoned or abused.

Only one out of maybe 100 pet owners spay their rabbits around here.
I don't think they should have to.

The kind of hormonalness that drives an otherwise sane rabbit to draw blood on her caretakers is not necessary for good nest building or good mothering, and besides that,
if they are nutso before breeding chances are they completely flip for about 10 or 11 days after kindling too.

When they come to you as adults, who knows, they may simply have been abused, and are thus terrified of all things human.

If she were mine, I would still just have a pricy dinner and then raise a few kits from the mellow girl.
The aggressive doe may be reformable, but raising kits is less stressful, and might even be faster. :lol:

-- Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:06 pm --

Also, try not to buy from anyone who attempts to force a sale of live animals. Ever.
Buyers have the right to back out at any point, for any reason.

Good breeders will ask you to look over the rabbits carefully, especially if they notice you haven't, and even show you what to look for.
A LOT of people prefer to inspect rabbits hands on before deciding to make a purchase.
How could anyone who allegedly shows his rabbits not know that??

3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 42
Joined: February 2, 2016
Location: Western MA
United States of America Female
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 3 in 1 post
BunnyBucks: 292.00

Re: Crazy Attack Doe

Post Number:#7  Unread postby Kenzierey » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:38 pm


alforddm wrote:There are too many nice or at least nonaggressive rabbits in this world to worry about getting your hand bit off when you try to feed or care for her. Eat her and save back a doe (or two or three) from the sweet rabbit.

Congratulations on your new rabbits btw. I'm sorry your buying experience was a bit traumatizing.


My thoughts exactly. I LOVE my other buns. This psycho just doesn't seem worth the effort. It's gotten to the point where she makes having rabbits less enjoyable and it makes me want to go out and interact with them less... And thank you! lol I am so happy to have the other two.

a7736100 wrote:"rabbits show very well and everyone goes to him from different places in the country". Is that what he told you or was it for real?


This is what he said to me. From the looks and smell of his set up, I don't see how he gets that much business but I really don't know anything about show rabbits or show people, for that matter.

MamaSheepdog wrote:$50 is not really that much for a good quality rabbit. That is my minimum price.


THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT!!!! Seriously, that makes me feel so much better. Everyone else that I have told has said I am an idiot and they would never pay that. BUT I was expecting super great rabbits. I am sure yours are well worth the $50. But I must say, his are not unfortunately. Well, not that one awful cali doe I got anyway.

I truly appreciate your thoughtful response. That is great info to have and I will surely try this on any future rabbits that are aggressive or fearful. This one I swear just seems spiteful and truly just messed up. She's not nice. Ever. I do not feel comfortable even trying to pick her up. I know she will bite at whatever she can and I don't want her anywhere near me. I will show this to my BF though in case he wants to try it out. As for me, unfortunately I think I have already given up on her.

MamaSheepdog wrote:Yikes! :x Did he at least support their bodies as well? I have seen some people pull a rabbit by the ears just to get it to move forward in the cage, but never picking them up by the ears alone.


Oh, and once their bodies were already dangling he would support them while he walked to his grooming table to show them to us..but you could tell they were terrified and extremely uncomfortable with him handling them.

I don't think this guy was a bad guy like it may have sounded in my first post. I do believe he was trying to give us good info and help us out. I just don't think we had the same ideas on how rabbits should act or how they should be treated...We are just very different people and I don't particularly care to deal with him anymore. Surely, I will be MUCH more careful in the future.

Preitler wrote:Did you try to win her over with treats? It's amazing how bribable rabbits are.


I try every day and she sniffs the treat and then ignores it and goes for your hand. I literally have to gear up, open the cage and toss whatever in there as quick as I can. I swear she just wants blood LOL.

Zass wrote:If she were mine, I would still just have a pricy dinner and then raise a few kits from the mellow girl.
The aggressive doe may be reformable, but raising kits is less stressful, and might even be faster.


Thank you, I do believe this is what we are going to do... Maybe we can light some candles and drink some fancy wine to go with her..

Zass wrote: I do not need lines that must be bred to not bite human hands


This is so very true. I really don't think I will ever want to breed her, even if she did end up calming down. I've got two other does who are great and super friendly. Mama, my first girl runs up to me and begs for treats and loves petting. That is exactly what I wanted when starting up this hobby... This crazy doe is ruining the other buns for me because she stresses me out so much. The more I think about it, the more I realize I don't want her babies, not even for meat. I can't even imagine how scary she would be with a litter of kits to protect. She won't even let us near her food.


Honestly, I think this is a blessing in disguise. Sure, she was pricey but I have been SOO nervous about slaughtering our first rabbit.. I've been saying how I probably can't watch and that I will love the litter of babies I have too much before that time comes.

I will be so much happier doing a "test rabbit" first. One that I haven't raised myself...And IDK, this sounds kind of mean...but I think I will be able to watch the whole process when her time comes.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests