Rabbit safe high in methionine+cystine amino acids?

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alforddm

alforddm

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I'm working up a natural feeding plan for my rabbits that fits my climate. A problem that I'm running into is that rabbits need a diet high in sulfur (methionine+cystine) amino acids. Most of the forage items I'm finding are lacking in these. A couple of possibilities are sunflower seeds and oats.

The sunflower seeds are going to be used as I can grow them myself without to much trouble. Whole oats are cheap to buy and the rabbits love them however, I'd like to stick with things I can grow myself as much as possible. I could attempt to grow oats...but I'd rather not.

Does anyone have other suggestions? To fill this gap?
 
Chinese chestnuts have been on my mind lately.
I've been feeding frozen ones to the rabbits on forage. (I bagged up and froze at least 10 lbs last fall.) The problem is that fully mature chestnut trees can be hard to come by..

__________ Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:33 am __________

I believe acorn is also a very complete protein, but those require more processing to render safe for animal feed.
 
From what i can find on acorns they are well rounded but not particularity high in methionine+cystine. Chestnuts are better but still not as good as sunflower seeds.

It seems that peanuts are almost as good as sunflower seeds. I think I could grow peanuts! Plus I can feed the tops as forage.

Can rabbits eat peanuts? Should be fine so long as I don't have mutant bunnies with a peanut allergy?
 
All the brassicas veggies are high in sulfur amino acids

I would not consider requiring less than 1% of sulfur containing amino acids in their diet to be a *high* amount
 
That comparison chart is less than useless

You should only compare foods on a Dry Matter Basis - meaning with all water removed - to get accurate results

Because of the significantly higher water content of cabbage compared to sunflower seeds or oats the results are skewed to make it seems that there is much less nutrients in a 100 gram sample

Unfortunately the chart you posted doesn't even list the moisture content in a 100gram sample so I cannot re-calculate the values to find out if cabbage is comparable to those two seeds :(

Found it at the bottom ;)

OK,

A 100g sample of cabbage is 92.2% water vs 4.7% water in sunflower seeds

And 22mg of the remaining 7.8% dry matter are Sulfur Amino Acids which roughly converts to 263mg of SAA which is about 1/3 of the SAA found in sunflower seeds

Not too shabby :)
 
I would think oats would be easier than peanuts. The plants are practically weeds they grow so easy and with lots or practically no moisture. We've had spilled oats grow in horse stalls. You don't have to separate the oat from the plant. Cut or pull the entire plant when the oats reach the maturity you need. Rabbits will pick the heads off and eat some of the whole plant. Remove the remainder when they run out of oat heads. You should be able to feed the entire peanut plant too. Some harvest them into a legume hay and feed but it's not common to find peanut hay about and I'm not sure if you have to cut it before the peanuts are fully mature or not. It would be similar to other legume hays like alfalfa and clover but I don't have much info on making peanut hay. Corn, oats, wheat, and soybeans are about all you see here.

Don't feed large amounts of sunflower seeds without balancing the omega fatty acids. They are inflammatory when not balanced. Normally as a supplement you would only give spoonfuls. I've been playing with mixes from 2:1 to 4:1, flaxseed:sunflower seed.
 
Dood":yo44ndco said:
That comparison chart is less than useless

You should only compare foods on a Dry Matter Basis - meaning with all water removed - to get accurate results

Because of the significantly higher water content of cabbage compared to sunflower seeds or oats the results are skewed to make it seems that there is much less nutrients in a 100 gram sample

Unfortunately the chart you posted doesn't even list the moisture content in a 100gram sample so I cannot re-calculate the values to find out if cabbage is comparable to those two seeds :(

Found it at the bottom ;)

OK,

A 100g sample of cabbage is 92.2% water vs 4.7% water in sunflower seeds

And 22mg of the remaining 7.8% dry matter are Sulfur Amino Acids which roughly converts to 263mg of SAA which is about 1/3 of the SAA found in sunflower seeds

Not too shabby :)
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dood. Your right, I hadn't considered the DM.

akane":yo44ndco said:
I would think oats would be easier than peanuts. The plants are practically weeds they grow so easy and with lots or practically no moisture. We've had spilled oats grow in horse stalls. You don't have to separate the oat from the plant. Cut or pull the entire plant when the oats reach the maturity you need. Rabbits will pick the heads off and eat some of the whole plant. Remove the remainder when they run out of oat heads. You should be able to feed the entire peanut plant too. Some harvest them into a legume hay and feed but it's not common to find peanut hay about and I'm not sure if you have to cut it before the peanuts are fully mature or not. It would be similar to other legume hays like alfalfa and clover but I don't have much info on making peanut hay. Corn, oats, wheat, and soybeans are about all you see here.

Don't feed large amounts of sunflower seeds without balancing the omega fatty acids. They are inflammatory when not balanced. Normally as a supplement you would only give spoonfuls. I've been playing with mixes from 2:1 to 4:1, flaxseed:sunflower seed.
Click to expand...

Don't they readily fall off the stem when dry? I guess I could try a small patch and see how it goes...I know that the whole oats I buy sprout when the rabbits spill a few. <br /><br /> __________ Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:21 pm __________ <br /><br /> I was just reading back of some of the info on feedipedia. Whole sunflowers can be included as up to 20% of the diet of breeding does.
 
I remember that

It's all about developing a bloodline that can tolerate the foods.

In just 2 years I have seen vast improvements in my meat mutt rabbits ability to thrive on my forage, hay and grain diet. I still have a purebred line of AmChins who meet the SOP but need to be "babied" on this diet and I'm seriously considering eliminating them altogether :(

Rabbits are truely amazing creatures :) their fast reproduction rate and large litter size really lends itself to selection for the most minute differences in husbandry practices and you can eventually adapt them to practically any feed
 
Zass":1fseq9g3 said:
Didn't someone post an overseas rabbitry that was feeding a brassica as the largest portion of their rabbit's diet?

Some type of leafy cabbage?
Click to expand...


This is what feedipedia says about oat. Evidently an oat and cabbage diet provides good growth.

Oats are palatable to rabbits. In free-choice trials, rabbit generally prefer oats to barley and always prefer oats to maize or wheat grain (Jensen, 1989; Rowley, 1963). Rabbits fed exclusively with oats and fresh forage (alfalfa, clover or cabbage) had good growth performance (Akram et al., 1989; Tsutsmi et al., 1967). This is probably due to the relatively high level of sulphur amino acids in the oat protein: about 4.7% on average for a recommendation of 3.75% (Lebas, 2004). A side effect of feeding rabbits exclusively with oats and cabbage is the production of an acidic urine free of sediments (Block et al., 1962) while rabbits fed a commercial rabbit feed produce alkaline urine with calcium sediments (Cheeke, 1987). Distributed as the only feed (+1.5% limestone) to weaned rabbits, oats gave an acceptable growth rate, but caused a deficiency in Vitamina A after several weeks, which could be alleviated with Vitamin A supplementation or by feeding cabbage (Pirie et al., 1946). When introduced in well-balanced diets and compared to barley, oats provided growth rate, slaughter yield and meat composition similar to those obtained with barley (Jensen, 1980, Akram et al., 1989; Lopez-Bote et al., 1998). Longissimus dorsi drip loss and oxidation susceptibility were reduced, thus improving meat quality (Lopez-Bote et al., 1998).

The high fibre content of oats compared to other cereal grains is the likely cause to the lower mortality observed in growing rabbits fed oats (Sanchez et al., 1981).
Click to expand...
http://www.feedipedia.org/node/231
 
There is controversy over feeding cabbage, as it's said to be a gassy food..
But I've also seen a lot of breeders declare that they have always fed it without trouble.
:shrug:
The best advice for any rabbit feeding is probably just:
"Change over gradually, and watch carefully for adverse reactions."

I read a study on feeds somewhere...it was comparing fiber types. The soybean hulls (found in most rabbit pellets) were actually said to be the worst type(among those tested) for weanlings, and the soluble fiber in oats found to be best for their developing digestive tracts.

I'll try to source that when I have some more time...
 
In case anyone is interested, This is the study I found that lists the sulfur amino acid requirements. I'm pretty sure this was referenced from feedipedia originally but I don't remember the page I found it on.

http://journals.cambridge.org/download. ... 3a422129d3 <br /><br /> __________ Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:09 pm __________ <br /><br /> What does the
Distributed as the only feed (+1.5% limestone)
Click to expand...
in the paragraph I quoted about about oats mean anyway?
 
I attached the pdf since its open access. The study was done in 1976 and used NZW rabbits 4-8 weeks of age.

The addition of both lysine and methionine improved growth rates. The minimum requirements for
normal growth weie found to be 6.2 g methionineicystine and 9.4 g lysine/kg diet.
Click to expand...

__________ Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:32 pm __________

I wonder if a deficiency in these amino acids is the reason rabbits feed mostly forage have lower growth rates?

__________ Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:31 pm __________

I was googling to see if watermelon seeds had any uses... and just happened to think to check....

BUT both watermelon seeds and pumpkin seeds are high in the sulfur amino acids. They are also high in fat however. I know pumpkin seeds are rabbit safe I'm assuming watermelon seeds are as well?

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/nutri ... =100&e=&r=
 

Attachments

  • S0007114578001579a.pdf
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I feed pumpkin seeds instead of boss on occasion, maybe it helps boost growth.

I'll have to look into putting in a larger supply this fall.

And...I'll just go ahead and do a rabbitry-wide palatability test for watermelon seeds, since I happen to have a huge watermelon with ripe seeds right now. :)

__________ Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:53 pm __________

First watermelon seed taster report is in.

Mucky says: "What are these? No pumpkin seeds??"
Euryale says, "Nom nom nom, anymore?? "

Further testing with more rabbits scheduled for later today... <br /><br /> __________ Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:22 pm __________ <br /><br /> Sushi ate them right up.
Daisy wouldn't take them from my hand, but ate them in her dish.
About 1/2 the meat mutts would take them from my hand. Sin ate up everything I gave her.

I've had rabbits reject all sorts of foods on a first taste, so overall, I'd say they pass for palatability.
 
Sometimes my mind works in strange ways. I'd considered pumpkin seeds but hadn't thought to check the pumpkin plant itself or the fruit. Turn out the leaves are very good! Better than cabbage in Lysine, Methionine, and Cystine. Not to mention higher in protein overall. Plus they grow very well in my area. I think I may have found a new favorite plant.

So, you can feed the leaves during the summer and the fruit and seeds during the winter? And basically do a good job meeting your rabbits amino acid requirements?

Here is the chart where I was comparing pumpkin leaves, raw pumpkin, and cabbage.

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/nutri ... =100&r=100
 

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