Duramycin vs Apple Cider Vinegar

Curious if anyone uses Duramycin or Apple Cider Vinegar in your rabbit's water?

I read in a couple of books by Bob Bennett that he has consistently used 1 tsp of Duramycin per 5 gallons of water one day each week for all his rabbits. Says he is convinced it keeps his rabbits healthier and also boosts litter size.

I've also read many positive reports about the use of Apple Cider Vinegar, with "the mother". Most recommend 1 to 2 tablespoons per gallon of water. Some people use it every day, some use it for a period of time on and off. (e.g. 30 days with ACV, 30 days without or 3 months with, 3 months without.)

ACV supposedly provides many of the same benefits of Duramycin and is also claimed to improve the success of breeding attempts.

I started using Duramycin but switched to ACV a week before my two litters were delivered. Wasn't sure whether the broad-spectrum antibiotic could cause problems with the kits ability to develop the needed digestive bacteria. (Though I found no mention of any such precautions in Bob Bennet's books.)

I've been using 1 tablespoon of ACV per gallon of water at every feeding for a couple weeks now. It does appear the rabbits are beginning to drink a bit more. Don't think it's weather-related as the temperature has actually been cooler the last week or so. I plan to gradually increase to 2 tablespoons per gallon but didn't want to make too sudden a change in the flavor of the water for the rabbits.

At any rate, if I were absolutely convinced that the Duramycin would prevent health problems and improve litter size without causing problems, I would use it one day per week. But then I have to choose if I want to use ACV only, Duramycin only, or both...???

Would appreciate any knowledgeable/experienced input...

What specific health problems was the duramycin intended to prevent?

I did find this warning for the antibiotic:

http://www.drugs.com/vet/duramycin-10.html

Warning

Do not slaughter birds or swine for food within 4 days of treatment or calves within 5 days of treatment. A withdrawal period has not been established for this product in pre-ruminating calves. Do not use in calves to be processed for veal. Not for use in turkeys or chickens producing eggs for human consumption. Do not use for more than 5 consecutive days in swine and calves, or 14 consecutive days in birds.


Manufactured for DURVET, INC., Blue Springs, Missouri 64014

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So you might want to wait a few days to allow it to leave a rabbit's body before slaughtering.

I can't say I know anything about health, litter sizes or breeding success with either, since I've never tried them.

I'm over my head in kits as it is. :lol:
I over-breed with the expectation of occasional misses...
Only this year, no one's missed. My goofball does are all having between 9 and 15 live babies each, so I already don't know what to do with all these things. :runaround:

I'm attributing my current success to a very good diet, with grass hay, pellets, foraged greens, and boss to round out the lower fat content of the feed I use.

I've never used either compound :shrug:

But on a certain rabbit Facebook page I was horrified to see ACV being recommended to treat everything from infertity to pasturella to ear mites :groooan:

Dood":1uvm3uyn said:

I've never used either compound :shrug:

But on a certain rabbit Facebook page I was horrified to see ACV being recommended to treat everything from infertity to pasturella to ear mites :groooan:

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The idea is to put some probiotic energy toward better overall health. This seems more necessary in rabbits that are not eating enough fresh foods.

Zass, according to Bob Bennett ("Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits) he recommends "maintaining health" rather than attempting to "restore health". He uses the Duramycin as a "preventative treatment".

His entire regimen includes 1) "make certain my feed pellets contain copper sulfate (most do) to control coccidiosis parasites and prevent diarrhea", 2) "treat the water once a week with Duramycin for growth promotion, for diarrhea prevention, and because I'm absolutely certain it increases litter size", and 3) "before each litter emerges from the nest box at 2 to 3 weeks of age, I disinfect and rinse the hutch floor".

He goes on to claim that Duramycin is "without peer" at growth promotion, stress prevention and preventing scours (diarrhea).

Mr. Bennet also points out the importance of withholding Duramycin for at least two weeks prior to slaugher.

Congratulations on your population explosion! Sounds like you're doing things right.

Zinnia":11775p5s said:

Dood":11775p5s said:

I've never used either compound :shrug:

But on a certain rabbit Facebook page I was horrified to see ACV being recommended to treat everything from infertity to pasturella to ear mites :groooan:

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The idea is to put some probiotic energy toward better overall health. This seems more necessary in rabbits that are not eating enough fresh foods.

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I can agree to that - I can see no harm in it and "an ounce of prevention... " :mrgreen: but the cases I read about were not as a preventive but as a cure and for the mites they were told to apply the AVC topically - into the ear canal :shock:

I'm trying to go organic as reasonably possible and would not want to regularly be dosing my rabbits with antibiotics - I also strongly believe in breeding towards good health rather than resorting to drugs or homeopathic remedies - if my livestock (chickens, turkeys, quail, rabbits) cannot thrive in the conditions on my farm they don't deserve to be here and are promptly replaced by hardier stock

After 20 years my chantecler chickens are tough buggers that don't need supplements to survive our "hands off" style of farming

With my rabbits, I've had a lot of success in breeding towards resistance to hepatic coccidia in just 18 months :cheesysmile:

I totally agree, Dood. People need to be breeding for hardiness. It's not fair to the breed, IMO, if we pamper along those that really should be culled.

I would never, never dose any animal routinely with antibiotics. Isn't that one of the things we are trying to avoid by raising our own meat? You can pay too high a price for faster growth.

I'm not a big fan of Bob Bennett's approach to raising rabbits. If I were going to recommend one book, it would be Ann Kanable's book, also called Raising Rabbits. But we've come a long way since these books were written in the 70's and they are all a little outdated.

Regarding apple cider vinegar: it is not a cure-all. It may convey some health benefits and it does seem to cut the odour of rabbit urine. Many rabbits do seem to prefer the taste of water with ACV added and may drink more as a result. To me, it seems to be one of those "can't hurt and might help" things.

Between ACV and DE (diatomacous earth) there is nothing known to man that can't be cured, didn't ya'know? :mrgreen:

Like Maggie, I think treating with prophylactic doses of antibiotics goes against the whole point of raising our own meat. I don't use medicated feed for any of my animals anymore than I'd take an ongoing dose of antibiotics myself.

I don't, in general, dose with ACV or DE either. I'm not a germaphobe in general so my rabbits' cages are not hyperclean and certainly not sterile. (They aren't nasty either, btw.) So, I figure my rabbits are maintaining a good balanced gut environment (as evidenced by not yet having any enteritis or other gut issues in my herd). I have thought about getting the Probios and dosing with that periodically but haven't yet.

When I read the Storey's Guide to Rabbits and got to that part about dosing regularly with antibiotics, I was tempted to demand my money back. I certainly do not use the book as a reference! That blow it for me. Even if the rest of the book is good, it lost my respect right there.

I'd like to point out that there is a reason for the withholding period before human consumption.

If it's that risky for human health, how could it possibly be good and healthy for a rabbit to take routinely? There must be some negative side effects from long term exposure. :?

There is also the contribution towards creating antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria.

Hmm, another reason I dislike the idea of adding anything to their bodies that I wouldn't consume, is because I never know when I'll have to do a health-cull for adult stock.

There were plenty of times I terminally culled at the first sign of white snot, the beginning of diarrhea, a leg injury, or some other symptom I felt culling was a better or more humane option than trying to nurse the animal through.

If my animals were mediated with something I wouldn't want to consume (this includes the mercury containing pasteurella vaccine), the 6+ lbs of meat I get from adult culls would be wasted.

I could try to keep the animal alive long enough to clean it out...but that runs a risk of prolonging suffering unnecessarily.

The ACV however, is 100% safe for human consumption and like others have said, can do no harm.

Seems like the choice is easy there, if you feel the herd needs a boost.

Thank you to everyone who commented!! :thankyou:

That helps a lot. I had some slight misgivings about the Duramycin for many of the reasons mentioned... Potential to develop resistant strains of bacteria, risk of carry-over in the meat. :x

And you're right Frecs... I don't use any medicated feed either so the Duramycin goes against that.

MaggieJ... I'll check out Ann Kanable's book. Thank you for that reference. :reading1:

So you've all helped me answer the question. I'll continue to add ACV to the rabbit's water. Can't hurt, might help, seems to be increasing water intake which should be good, and everything I've read says it reduces the ammonia odor in the urine. That should be better for the rabbits, since I understand their sense of smell is something like 10 times better than ours.

Now I've got to start another thread and learn more about breeding for better overall health in a small herd! Just trying to learn what to do, how to do it and when. Also trying to better understand what not to do. Lots to learn!

MaggieJ... I'll check out Ann Kanable's book. Thank you for that reference. :reading1:

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Go to http://www.abebooks.com/

You can often find books like Ann Kanable's for a buck or two. Shipping within the United States is usually very reasonable. When I am looking for a specific book, I always go there first.

Thanks MaggieJ! Found a hardcover copy in good shape in Dallas (quicker for delivery) for just $3.65 with free shipping!

Cool site. I buy a lot of books. This will come in very handy. :thankyou: