Poor rabbits

Ladysown - that's pretty awesome of you to rescue that poor bunny. I hope you didn't have to pay for him.

As far as pet store cages, they're all about maximum profit. I can't believe how much they charge for those little cages. The biggest one is about 30" long, but narrow. They charge over $100 for the cages and you can get a whole 30x36 setup at tractor supply for about $60. Crazy. I can't imagine any but the tiniest dwarf being able to live in those cages for long. I've heard of worse though, such as full grown rabbits being kept in an aquarium tank. Ugh.

From the way it looks in the pictures it looks like he keeps them in his garage. I'm kind of curious when someone does want a bunny if he takes them to the area he houses them or if he has them pick one on in the picture then bring it to them so they don't see what they are living in. If I had a lot of room I would rescue all them clean them up and find them families that would keep them indoors and taken care of. Those cages aren't big enough for that many rabbits to live in them.

Find a rescue or an a.s.p.c.a. web site and post the info and pics..that "person"needs to be shut down..

preciousgurl63":2hp0eyc2 said:

DBA":2hp0eyc2 said:

I thought about flagging the ad, but if it gets removed, the rabbits might not have a chance at getting a better home.

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I was going to flag the ad but thought the same thing. I want the rabbits to find a good caring home and not have to live like that. But I don't think none of those rabbits should cost that much living in those cages and waste. They are most likely sick or something.

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I want to see the bunnies rescued and put into good homes. However, that creep shouldn't make any money from them or he will be encouraged to just keep doing what he's doing. :angry:

Sadly, I don't even know if he lives in an area where an animal rescue would be able to FORCE him to surrender the rabbits. I know that in my area, even for a dog or cat, as long as they have access to food, water and shelter, the animal control officer won't interfere. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:04 am __________ <br /><br /> Well, hell with it.

I sent an email to these folks: https://clevelandapl.org/

Not sure if they can, or will, do anything. But it's something at least. :/

I take in rescues all the time. You know the people.. get this rabbit off my hands, I don't care where it goes... just get it gone. I don't pay for them. But I'll pick them up free.

I just fit them in where there is room in my quarantine tent. If they are sweet, I find them new homes (charging $20 to make sure folk can afford to care for them). If I'm convinced it's a good home I'll reduce the price but i need to be convinced and not moon swallowed.

If they are sick or injured they get humanely culled. I've had this three times...badly broken leg, something growing in an eye rabbit and a matted twisted hair ripped infected skin rabbit.

if they are nasty-tempered they get three-four weeks to turn themselves around but I DO NOT pass on nasty. It's surprising to me how many rabbits in poor housing/care are the sweetest things in the world. Well fed rabbits are so resilient, just blows me away. On the odd occasion I'll breed them, as proven does for some reason are an easy rabbit to move on (especially to pet homes). I DO NOT understand it. Sweet doe that are barren no one wants to touch.... but a proven one.. bam sold.. and neutered usually within two weeks. Makes no sense.

Anyways, some folks should be reported. I don't know if dirty cages would do it for me. The folks with the rabbit with the broken leg... THOSE folks I was sorely tempted to. Especially when they told me they would have taken to the vet but they had a party and needed to get the drinks for it so couldn't afford to that. Some folk.. GRRRR.

Hard to know where to draw the line though. Some folks go GRRR at me cause Gasp.. I breed rabbits and sell them for pets. Or Gasp.. I take in rescues and sometimes find it necessary to cull them. I cull rather than medicate, and that's make other folks angry.

Should that fellow be taught what he is doing is not good for the rabbits? FOR SURE. But the rabbits looked fed and watered. Just not clean and too crowded for my liking. (please don't look at my guinea pigs right now, which are crowded but clean but crowding works in the winter for keeping them warm)... but not all would understand that.

Do I like or approve of the way he keeps them? NO.
Do I think it's right? NO.
I just don't know if I would have taken the step to turn him in as it's just another "breeder" who aught to be shot (according the AR folk). I don't like giving them ammunition.

The only one the really concerns me is that himi colored one with the big reddish mark that I can't quite make out...

Zass":2mujlmwm said:

The only one the really concerns me is that himi colored one with the big reddish mark that I can't quite make out...

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I mentioned that in my email, Zass. I told them to look at the last picture, possibly a rabbit with a wound. They probably won't do anything anyway, but I tried.

ladysown":2mujlmwm said:

Do I like or approve of the way he keeps them? NO.
Do I think it's right? NO.
I just don't know if I would have taken the step to turn him in as it's just another "breeder" who aught to be shot (according the AR folk). I don't like giving them ammunition.

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Heck, I still consider myself to be an animal rights activist. Just maybe not in the way you would think. I deeply believe that animals, even those raised for food, have the 'right' to be treated humanely. Those rabbits are not. I doubt any one of us could be compared to that level of nasty.

I feel your pain about the rescues though and I will never understand the mentality of some people. Stuff like wanting a proven doe over a barren one with no intention to breed. It just leaves so many lovely rabbits without a forever home. It sounds like you do admirable work. You're a good person.

Syberchick70":15reercu said:

Heck, I still consider myself to be an animal rights activist. Just maybe not in the way you would think. I deeply believe that animals, even those raised for food, have the 'right' to be treated humanely. Those rabbits are not. I doubt any one of us could be compared to that level of nasty.

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Animal rights activists are fanatical that don't want animals used for any thing and are pro-death for "freedom". I would just stick with animal welfare...when I read your post it makes me want to crawl away and I don't think intended that to happen. There's lots of people on here with different views, but I have yet to meet any one on here that is OK with a typical ARA and wouldn't want to see some one wrongly lumped into that group of crazies...

I would not have posted any ad like that, much less with the condition the cage/housing is in. The one himi looks like he's/she's been ripped into by their cage mate, that dark place I've seen more than once on a few that were returned that ended up being housed with another rabbit that broke into a squabble. I'm surprised they are as clean (white wise) as they are considering what they are sitting in. This is not okay housing, the person should know better. Even a business person focused on the sake of $$ knows that you can't sell poor product and get $$...which is exactly what they are trying to do even if they are "pets". Another smack to the nail on not selling pets at here....I know there are great homes but even one not telling the truth or asking for help and doing some thing like this makes me sick to my stomach....ugh. :evil:

Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry":2592g3zy said:

Syberchick70":2592g3zy said:

Heck, I still consider myself to be an animal rights activist. Just maybe not in the way you would think. I deeply believe that animals, even those raised for food, have the 'right' to be treated humanely. Those rabbits are not. I doubt any one of us could be compared to that level of nasty.

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Animal rights activists are fanatical that don't want animals used for any thing and are pro-death for "freedom". I would just stick with animal welfare...when I read your post it makes me want to crawl away and I don't think intended that to happen. There's lots of people on here with different views, but I have yet to meet any one on here that is OK with a typical ARA and wouldn't want to see some one wrongly lumped into that group of crazies...

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Not all of us. That's an overgeneralization based on the fanatical minority. Any group can be stigmatized in that way, unfairly. As for the rest of your post, I agree with it.

Syberchick70":1pcapwnu said:

Not all of us. That's an over generalization based on the fanatical minority. Any group can be stigmatized in that way, unfairly. As for the rest of your post, I agree with it.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't believe that it is fair to judge members of a group, religion, or even just people who share one philosophy by the actions of the most extreme.

Unless it's an extreme philosophy to begin with.

I have a problem with ASPCA, because their core philosophy sees all domestication and the keeping of domestic animals as a form of cruelty.
I see domestication as a survival trait, an adaption to a world populated by very high numbers of human beings. It's at best a symbiotic relationship, with both species benefiting from the relationship.

I like that ASPCA isn't afraid to euthanize animals who are suffering, or simply unwanted. I dislike that they would prefer to euthanize ALL of our pets and domestic animals if they had the power and authority to do so.

People! :roll:

I'm surprised they are as clean (white wise) as they are considering what they are sitting in.

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we cannot see their bottoms I bet they are bald and already rotting from hutch burn

Zass":2r134mcq said:

Syberchick70":2r134mcq said:

Not all of us. That's an over generalization based on the fanatical minority. Any group can be stigmatized in that way, unfairly. As for the rest of your post, I agree with it.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't believe that it is fair to judge members of a group, religion, or even just people who share one philosophy by the actions of the most extreme.

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Zass":2r134mcq said:

I have a problem with ASPCA, because their core philosophy sees all domestication and the keeping of domestic animals as a form of cruelty.
I see domestication as a survival trait, an adaption to a world populated by very high numbers of human beings. It's at best a symbiotic relationship, with both species benefiting from the relationship.

I like that ASPCA isn't afraid to euthanize animals who are suffering, or simply unwanted. I dislike that they would prefer to euthanize ALL of our pets and domestic animals if they had the power and authority to do so.

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I definitely agree that it's a symbiotic relationship. Many species that we have no 'use' for, simply disappear. I also strongly believe that any creature we take stewardship of, we are ethically bound to treat as humanely as possible and I believe that most everyone here does that. If anyone does not, they likely don't share that information, but I find it more likely that people come to this forum because they CARE and want to be able to do the best for their critters.

I'm not sure about the last thing you said, about the ASPCA wanting to euthanize all of our domestic animals. That seems pretty unlikely... at least I really hope it is. :/ <br /><br /> __________ Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:37 pm __________ <br /><br />

Dood":2r134mcq said:

I'm surprised they are as clean (white wise) as they are considering what they are sitting in.

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we cannot see their bottoms I bet they are bald and already rotting from hutch burn

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No doubt, Dood.

The only way I can imagine them NOT having those sort of issues, is if they are not in those filthy cages all the time... but if that's the case, why would the guy selling them put them in the filthy cages to take pictures of them? I mean hells bells, why would someone take pictures of them in filthy cages even if that IS where they live all the time? One would think the guy would at least take them out and put them somewhere clean, long enough to take pictures. It just demonstrates the level of his lack of caring. Disgusting. :evil:

I'm not sure about the last thing you said, about the ASPCA wanting to euthanize all of our domestic animals. That seems pretty unlikely... at least I really hope it is. :/

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My understanding is that it's not the official viewpoint of the organization(since that would be quite unpopular with donators), but it was a view held by the founder, and it is a common view in AR groups.

This is just one of many such articles, for an example:

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/pet ... stication/

But if there were two dogs left in the universe and it were up to us as to whether they were allowed to breed so that we could continue to live with dogs, and even if we could guarantee that all dogs would have homes as loving as the one that we provide, we would not hesitate for a second to bring the whole institution of “pet” ownership to an end.

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The biggest argument in that article being that our domesticated animals live in unnatural conditions and have no place in this world, since they were altered by the intervention of humankind to be more suitable for living with humans than "in the wild." This is always under the assumption that everything humans beings do is unnatural.

:shock: It is unnatural for us to have co-dependent relationships with other species???

What about every other species on this plant that had to alter it's behavior to adjust to civilization??? Are they now all unnatural species??

No...I just cant see it.

Zass":4srok43l said:

But if there were two dogs left in the universe and it were up to us as to whether they were allowed to breed so that we could continue to live with dogs, and even if we could guarantee that all dogs would have homes as loving as the one that we provide, we would not hesitate for a second to bring the whole institution of “pet” ownership to an end.

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The biggest argument in that article being that our domesticated animals live in unnatural conditions and have no place in this world, since they were altered by the intervention of humankind to be more suitable for living with humans than "in the wild." This is always under the assumption that everything humans beings do is unnatural.

:shock: It is unnatural for us to have co-dependent relationships with other species???

What about every other species on this plant that had to alter it's behavior to adjust to civilization??? Are they now all unnatural species??

No...I just cant see it.

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Yeah... that's pretty whack-a-doo.
If I could put an end to all BAD pet ownership (and hey, BAD parents in general) I would do it. But end ALL domestic relationships with other species? Bollocks. Some of the happiest, most joyful and content animals I've ever seen have been 'pets'. Also, some of the most miserable. :/

I really doubt the entire organization feels that way though. Sounds like the founders were fanatics. I guess they didn't have any critters?? :roll:

In addition, I just want to say that there are also 'animal rights' people who are against, of all things, the use of honey and bee products. *chuckle* I can go into a long spiel about why THAT position is ridiculous.

Syberchick70":2mq4bm81 said:

In addition, I just want to say that there are also 'animal rights' people who are against, of all things, the use of honey and bee products. *chuckle* I can go into a long spiel about why THAT position is ridiculous.

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Yeah. We had a good laugh after spotting "vegan honey" in the grocery store.

It was made from apples.
I couldn't help but notice that there was no assurance that those apples were not pollinated by honey bees, or that the orchard had never been fertilized with animal manure.

Zass":1aicwflr said:

Syberchick70":1aicwflr said:

In addition, I just want to say that there are also 'animal rights' people who are against, of all things, the use of honey and bee products. *chuckle* I can go into a long spiel about why THAT position is ridiculous.

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Yeah. We had a good laugh after spotting "vegan honey" in the grocery store.

It was made from apples.
I couldn't help but notice that there was no assurance that those apples were not pollinated by honey bees, or that the orchard had never been fertilized with animal manure.

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Exactly... aside from my other arguments I use when 'vegans' try to say it's wrong to use bee products, a huge percentage of our commercial fruits, nuts and vegetables are pollinated using commercial bee pollination services (which are actually REALLY stressful to the bees). So yeah... let them figure THAT out.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels the same way about all this. So I was on craigslist again just a few minutes ago and came across another ad he posted. I really can't believe it. You can see how gross they cages really are. Poor poor rabbits.

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/grd/4923360059.html

I needed a better view...so I upped the exposure:

My intuition is saying that those buns are too white to be in that much poop. And it's odd that they all seem to be for sale.

It almost makes me wonder if the person who who initially took care of them became ill (hospitalized?) or died???? Are the current "owners" just trying to re-home them without any idea of their actual value or how to care for them??? (or what price they will sell at?)

Maybe they really need help getting these buns into homes that know how to care for them ??

__________ Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:18 am __________

Sorry Miss M <-genuinely sorry face. I will be careful to not do that again.

It looks like they're basically just standing in a pile of poop..... please tell me some of that is some kind of brown pellet bedding.