Belgian Hares

Hi all,
An innocent inquiry for a breeding pair eventually turned into the breeder saying he's considering selling off most of his stock. Just asked what's available and pricing.. I would like to breed, show, sell, eat.. Saw a post here saying 3lb carcass at 12 weeks, which I guess is fair considering what they are. They seem expensive, useless, and needy... but they are so pretty.. I would love to be able to turn a profit on them, but not sure if that's feasible.

I'm seeing a lot of mixed answers on cage size.. This breeder has his in 4x4ft cages. I was thinking to do 5x2 cages for each hare, does this sound alright? With that size I could build a 12 hole barn for them without need for a building permit... Of course it's winter now, how am I supposed to do that? Talk about bad timing.
:bunnyhop:

Cant help with you much with else, but regarding winter, just give the rabbits a way out of the wind. If they have food, a place from the wind, and aren't wet or moist, they can handle winter like champs. If these rabbits have been wintered before I would worry even less. Rabbits succumb to heat, not cold. Not sure how cold you usually get but I've gotten -60F and my buck did just fine.

I doubt there is much of a market for them in Ontario

No one wants a pet rabbit over 4 pounds or that isn't a lop.

The meat market here sucks as well - lots of NZW and Cali's sell for $15 (or free!!) and Belgians are not meaty enough to compete anyway :x

I think of all the rabbit breeds, the Belgians impress me the most in the enormity of the task of selection that went into developing them to look like hares. It's mind boggling, really. :bow:

I would love to have one as a barn mascot that I could let out all of the time to just run around, looking stately and picturesque. But with my advanced stage of Raging Rabbitosis, I know that keeping only one is a pipe dream. I would have to breed them. *Sigh*

I think that if you get them, you will have to do it for passion, not profit.

I visited the website for the National Club, and they only have 90+ members in the U.S., so there isn't much of a market even to show breeders. But you say they are "expensive" so maybe the going price for a great animal would make even occasional sales profitable?

I doubt many "pet people" know they exist, but you might be able to generate some local interest with good marketing.

I would guess that fast weight gain is not something breeders are selecting for, nor high meat to bone ratio, so your cost outlay in pellets per pound of meat is going to be higher.

In fact, according to this excerpt from the origins of the breed on the ABHC website, the end of the "Belgian Hare Boom" was precipitated by breeding for those qualities;

James Blyth in his article "King of the Fancy" in the October, 1973 issue of Countryside & Small Stock Magagine, had some addional insight into the end of the "boom". He wrote, "Until about 1917 Belgians led in entries. When the Hares were judged, the show was about over. The Hares were hurt when they came out with a standard for the heavyweight Belgian, Trying to make a meat rabbit out of this fine racy animal certainly was not for the good of the race horse of the rabbit family. At this time the Hare began to lose its place in popularity. Each breed has its place, and when you strive for meat-type in a fancy rabbit, you have lost much of that alert and fine, clean-cut appearance."

The larger version went on to become...

drum roll, please...

any guesses?

the Flemish Giant! :fainting:


Maybe you could also breed something more utilitarian or better suited to the show or pet market to offset their costs?

Here is the link to the ABHC:

http://belgianhareclub.com/index.html

I really enjoyed their section on training to pose for shows.

The Belgian Hare is a rare breed in need of preservation. Get them, because you love them and you enjoy keeping rabbits as a hobby, but don't get them to make a profit.

It is my hares which dress out at 3 lbs carcass at 11-12 weeks old. Live weight is almost 6 lbs at that age. I am not sure if they can do this in a 2'x5' cage, however. They are a freedom loving breed and if they are not happy they will not perform and may even be reluctant to reproduce. I have found mine not to be cold hardy at all and they have heat lamps in Fall, Winter, and Spring, which they bask under like a bunch of cats. They are very sleek and their fur is short, fine and thin. They also lack body mass to stay warm.

One breeding pair can get you a long way. You can spoil them, show them, enjoy them. I would start there. If this man's rabbits are well bred, then they will be very different from other breeds ... they will be aristocratic, intelligent, affectionate, and addictive. I would love to find out more about this breeder. Perhaps one or two of his rabbits would love to make a little journey across Canada and live in BC?

Don't hesitate to ask me more questions about the hares

BTW, mine live in 8'x8' pens bedded deeply on shavings, hay and straw. I sell my rabbits for $150.00 each. Registered rabbits are more. When selling hares as pets I only sell males - already neutered, and not as pets for kids. They are a great alternative for people who love cats.

I am pretty sure I saw your website once, BC Belgians...

To be more precise, a profit per say isn't required.. but I would like to be able to recover some of the initial investment costs at one point or another. I've come to the conclusion that rabbits will never be able to pay off my tuition. :lol: If I can get cost of the parents back in a couple litters that should end up being okay...

Originally I wanted 2 pairs, I felt like this would give me enough genetics to last for a little longer than one pair...

I imagine heavy culling is required with them, to keep the quality up... must understand that I am a huge fan of livestock breeds, I worry my friends with me excessive breed knowledge of everything from pigeons to cattle.... I did not know however that the Flemish giant is what came of meat Belgians, crazy...

The breeder I contacted is Michael Halstead of Hare Haven... you can find his info on the breed club webpage, he is in NY. He said that he used to show with his kids but with them grown and busy he hasn't had much time to show lately... He is only about 2 hours away from me. The pictures he sent me weren't too good, eh, but I wouldn't mind taking the trip to see them in person.

I was thinking 5x2 would be pretty fair, after seeing this breeder...
http://looneylops13.tripod.com/id14.html

I know the pet market is a dangerous place to venture, and I was thinking too to only sell bucks... but neutering where I am costs $300 to do, which alone would have me selling pet rabbits at like $450. There is a clinic only 15 minutes out of Guelph that will do checkup and neuter for about $130... If so being so close to Toronto I think there may be a fair amount of people willing to pay a fair bit for such an exotic looking rabbit (exotics are pretty big in TO)...
So, that would bring, $150 for the rabbit + $130 neuter... to $280.
Males do seem to be much nicer as pets too.

I do know one small time breeder in Ontario who sells for $150 too, but I think she only offers to people who are "in" with the breeding/show loop, very little advertisement done on her part, didn't know she existed until I joined a FB show group... Also recently saw a post of someone in NS looking to ship hares over there..

PS if anyone gets confused at this point, school is in Guelph, home (& my meat mutt bunnies) are in Kingston.. but I was thinking with a hare pair to bring them with me to Guelph. In Kingston you need excessive amounts of paper work and paying for permits just to be able to sell rabbits...

If so, 2-3 rabbits indoors with me during the winter months (in Guelph) sounds alright.. they would have to live outside April-September though because we have a ferret in the house, no where is safe from him as he free roams the whole house.

I was also looking into Czech frosties, which I wouldn't be able to profit from anyways, since they can only be sold to people registered with the club as of now. But again, think it would be cool to help get a breed ARBA recognized, so it appealed to me.

I would say go for it! You never know when you will find available hares again. Taking the whole herd may be a bit much, but at least get 2-3. I have 3 bucks living in the house with me right now, because the rabbitry is being expanded on, and it works pretty well. They get to run in the garden for a couple of hours every day and then they are back in a regular large size house rabbit cage. The hares are such big hams that they adapt to indoor living really well. They love being warm. They take turns sitting on the sofa with us, but not for too long, because they start flirting with the cats and spray :x Hopefully your does won't do that.

Your rabbits will definitely pay back your investment. I intend to raise my fryers organically and on pasture and can get $14.00/lb. for them. Pasture raised organic Belgian Hare at $42.00 per 3 lb. carcass would catch on in Toronto as well. I am, however, flabbergasted at the price of neutering in your area! WOW. My vet does it for $70.00 right now and my $150.00 pet price includes the neutering. Why would it be any more? That is crazy!

Would be nice to have another Canadian breeder of these. In my rabbits I hardly have to cull at all for faults. The shade of rust color comes out a little different in each individual, the ear lacing may not be perfect, or there is a slight difference in size, but overall there is very little variation among the kits. You have to get really pick to see the imperfections.

Here are some photos of one of my house hares:

Aww! I LOOOOVE it when you post pics BC! JUST GORGEOUS HARES!

The color is amazing! Is that what they consider a "full arch" body? They look very "wild"... not like the wild bunnies here, but they don't look like a typical fluffy round domestic type of bunny that's always seen here. lol They look like a racehorse of the rabbit world.

I just can't get over how gorgeous and stately these animals are. They remind me of Pharaoh or Ibizan hounds. What a joy to have such regal creatures in your home. Share as many pictures as you want, I'll never get tired of looking at them.
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I just got my first pair of Hares. Won a buck in the youth scholarship raffle at convention this month and then bought a little doe to go with him a few days ago. Oh my gosh, best rabbits ever!!!! Their personalities are quirky and outgoing and so inquisitive. I'm completely in love with them and am building a new section of the barn just for them. I plan to expand to 15-20 or so holes.

I have mine in 2'X4' solid-floor runs, but the breeder I got the doe from uses 2'X3' solid floored cages.

Hi all,
Sorry for no response, I haven't gotten an email back and just sent him another one. :/

BC Belgians, I was wondering what age you neuter your bucks that you sell as pets?

__________ Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 pm __________

Alright, he is willing to sell me his last 7 hares (3 does, 4 bucks) for $500 with travel cages... I am SO upset that I can't have them all. I posted an ad seeing if anyone would come pick up the 5 from my house same day for $500, so I can break even right away (minus the travel costs, which would be around 5 hours total for us). Did say price was negotiable though.
I am now hoping with all my might that I would be able to sell those 5 right away to someone. One person said that this breeder has beautiful hares and she's upset to hear that he's retiring, but she can't afford any more.
Would be nice though, if I could set up another breeder in Ontario... <br /><br /> __________ Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:29 pm __________ <br /><br /> Alright, another update, I guess I am talking to myself ehe.

Seems like these hares are awesome quality, guy used to be a top breeder a few years back, though his rankings fell as over the years he would show less, didn't show at all in 2014.

So my family has decided to take the plunge and take on all 7, when will an opportunity like this ever strike again? He's told me they're super cold hardy, he's always kept them in an unheated barn...

And even before I asked about the hares my dad said in the spring we're going to build a new building that's double the size of what we have now.. time to start drawing plans.

:congratulations:

You are going to be awfully buck heavy, though. :hmm:

I guess you better start test breeding to see who crosses best with who.

:lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny:

Congrats! They're gorgeous animals.... I can't wait to see some pics.

Glad you are getting all of them. YOu can then decide who does best with who, like MSD said.

Whoo!! Good luck with them!! What a fantastic opportunity!

Congrats! They are such a gorgeous, unique breed. <3

Olimpia, congratulations! I've been away from the forum for a couple of weeks and totally missed the new development. We should stay in touch for future stock exchange. At least I'd love to look what you have and don't mind flying them out. Also, there are precious few hare breeders in Canada, so we should definitely stay in touch with each other.

You must post pictures as soon as you have them. We insist!

That is a steal of a price. Take them and run. You'll never find a better deal.

Ok, really dumb question for BC Belgians. I know rabbits can be litter trained. I've done it. and I had a house bun as a teenager, but do your house hares use the box or do they drop a poo ball on the floor every 10 feet? I saw none in the photos you posted. The house rabbit I had as a kid did turd on the floor regularly. I guess I never realized the extent my mom went to to keep them swept up. Do they chew on stuff and dig at your carpet? Upset your house plants etc??

Well we are picking them up on Monday with cages and supplies... It's actually 2 does and 5 bucks... -_- Not really sure why so many bucks... That will be fun to sort out.. One pair is from a different line and then the other doe and 3 bucks are from his own lines..
Our new building is gonna be 12x24ft so we'll have a good amount of room to get things going.. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:03 pm __________ <br /><br /> Hey all, sorry for late response but quite busy at the moment...
So I was reading the emails wrong, we have a senior proven doe, a jr doe, a senior buck and 3 junior bucks (so 6).
They are all doing pretty good and settling...
Only have two pics for you sadly, the senior doe, and one of the junior bucks who I think I got a proper pose out of? He's absolutely nuts and is running around the living room like mad right now, surprised he's the only one I could get to hold the pose...