mastitis?

Yuki has not been feeding her kits well despite always feeling lumpy. Today they seemed even hungrier than before and so I flipped yuki over to try putting a kit on her. The kit didn't seem to be able to get anything despite yuki having 2 large lumps. I started feeling around and the 2 lumps are very very hard. I cannot squish them or move them at all. I tried to take a pic but it was hard to get the camera far enough way to not wash out the pic with the flash.

You can see the pink that is the lump just below my fingers and the nipple is at the top in the black spot of fur


Normal or not normal?<br /><br />__________ Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:38 pm __________<br /><br />I'm not really getting any answers about this. Think I should completely pull the kits? I tried offering some formula but they weren't interested despite acting very hungry. I got one to eat some pellets soaked in formula and it was more active last night. They are about 2 1/2 weeks old.

Not really normal, the best way is to try to milk her by hand, pinch gently at the bottom of the nipple and roll forward, once you get it broken up, as long as there isn't blood, put the kits on, they are the best medicine, also hot compresses help also, if you can get the milk flowing, her body should do the rest of the work, otherwise you need to put her on antibiotics....

Jack's advise is what I would do (and DID) when I got mastitis. I think its the best advice you could have.

YES!! warm compresses really help!!!! I am speaking from (human) experience also haha

I managed to get some stuff about like cottage cheese to come out of one nipple and then normal milk which the kits helped with. Then it was down to individual small lumps when a bit of blood started to come out and I pulled the kits off and tried another nipple. That one just seemed plugged up and once the stuff stuck at the end was gone milk was squirting all over on it's own. She's was getting rather wigglying and threatening to start biting at that point so I put her and her kits back in the cage to try again later. I think part of the problem is she's so sore she doesn't sit still for them to nurse. They follow her all over and wiggle under her but as soon as they latch on she jumps, squeaks, and hops to another corner.

sorry, but hold her, and wear long sleeves, the stuff you got out is pus, and has to 'expressed', feeding 3-4 times a day will keep it down, but, as my wife told me, it doesn't feel good.

Would some oral tetracycline hydrochloride be helpful? Would the kits have to be pulled completely for that? I do not see how I could get all the swelling on the worse side to go down. It goes halfway across her body and I'm not getting anything else out of it. The other side I got a lot more after holding a warm washcloth to her belly.

yes, and it'll be passed on I think (check out tetracycline on medline, biology is different, but you get a good idea) if it says that it's found in breast milk or has a warning for NURSING mothers, then yes it's passed on, but on the other hand, if she won't nurse.....
your going to loose them anyways, and she needs to get it out,

I would start her now, if it was just one, or still isolated, then just 'working' it out is doable, but when it get big, uck, brings back memories if MRSA and some of the stuff I did as a medic in the Army, lets just say, once it starts tunneling, you need antibiotics, and do the warm compresses and 'gentle' massaging, enough force to move it around, but not too much...
as often as you can.

I couldn't get anything to come out today despite hot compresses and we lost a kit. Not sure the exact reason but they are all weak. I handfed the remaining 3 as much as possible this evening and I'm going to just remove them. Then start the doe on tetracycline. I don't want to risk the kits getting diarrhea from the antibiotics by leaving them on her and they aren't getting any milk right now anyway.

NO, the doe will take alot longer (unless you are going to do it...)
if the kits aren't there to nurse, even with the ABX

One though, you can make a manual 'pump' by cutting the top off a syringe and using it to suck the milk out.

The kits will get diarrhea and have a much greater chance to die if left on her with tetracycline and without antibiotics she is getting worse to the point she's not eating or drinking much anymore.

um, so this sucks...
but if it's that bad...
it might be time to consider lancing the mastitis and giving a opening to drain, that and the ABX, otherwise it's just a matter of time until it crossed into the blood and she dies.

yeah, if you can foster do it and hit her hard, might want to make sure you have a good broad spectrum, or even stack the antibiotics.

Is there a danger if the kits are fostered to another doe that they will carry the infection to her? Please understand, I am ASKING, not saying this is the case. But it seems to me I remember reading something along those lines on one of the forums.

Yea if they are pulled they have to be handfed because they can pass it on to another doe.

This doe has been just this side of dog food for months. I was hoping she could at least raise good litters but apparently not. If she doesn't show improvement from the tetracycline soon I will probably go ahead and cull her. Is the meat safe for the dogs if the lumps are removed?

yea, different type bacteria, at worse, it would pass to pimples on the dog...

I had a BEW MR that developed mastitis. What happened was really freaky, and pretty gross you have been warned. First I pulled her kits and gave them to another doe, I always breed multiple does. The mammary gland that was affected reached all the way across her chest, and turned a bruised brown black color. It then died completely and became very hard, even the skin on the surface of her chest died. I was giving her injectable penicillin at this time. I'd been told that often if the dead mammary gland is removed the rabbit will heal and be fine. So I began peeling the good skin away from the dead part, hoping I could work the whole thing out of her chest. I checked her one morning to find that she had pulled this thing out of her body and eaten it, thats the gross part. She had this inch by an inch hole in her chest that ran about two inches deep under the skin across her chest, I put antibiotic ointment on it and kept up with the PenVK. She healed fine, but fell apart when I bred her a few months later. Pregnancy was fine, couldn't handle the stress of feeding the kits. Granted, she was a BEW. I liked the does personality, she was a sweet patient thing, so I didn't cack her when this was going on. I also wanted to see what was going to happen for future reference. I've been told by oldtimers that too much Calf Manna can cause mastitis, particularly in Flemish Giants. It causes the doe to produce more milk than the kits can use in one feeding, leaving an excess of milk that may lead to an increased chance of mastitis. My doe was on Calf Manna when this happened.