ckcs
Well-known member
The Cliven Bundy - Federal Government dispute is being widely talked about by the media. Curious to know where others stand on this issue. I'm irritated that Mr. Bundy is being made to look like some sort of hero. IMO based on a lot of reading he doesn't have a leg to stand on. He is gave and is giving the finger to the government and people are surprised the government is fighting back. Couple of points that I'll make.
1) the Feds owned the land prior to Mr. Bundy's family setting up in Nevada. This has been clearly demonstrated in the Court system, when Mr. Bundy challenged it. He may not like it but it's not his land and he has to play by the rules. Yes we the people own this country but we are not free to do whatever we like on government land. We have to abide by restrictions.
2) Mr Bundy has paid grazing fees in the past. He made a decision to stop paying them when the laws changed. As such he has incurred a tons of fines, fees and interest over the past 20 years. I'll get to why he stopped next.
3) In 1993 the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) change the grazing permits. Due to the Desert Tortoise being an endangered species (later they changed it to threaten), you now could only graze 150 animal units on the land. A unit is a cow and it's calf, a cow without a calf, a horse, 5 sheep or goats and so on. Since we are talking about cattle, Bundy would be allowed a max of 300 cattle (if each cow had a calf). Bundy found this unacceptable and "fired" the BLM. He stopped paying the fees and ignored the new limits. As such the fines rapidly built up, which can be as high as $200 a day per head. At one point Bundy tried to pay the County the grazing fees but they declined it because he owes the money to the Federal Government. From a personal standpoint I don't give a hoot about the Tortoise. While I agree the 150 unit limit created financial hardship for ranchers but the rules are the rules. Fight to change the rules but abide by them until you can change them otherwise you will pay the price.
4) The grazing fee are incredibly cheap and there is no reason for Mr Bundy to not have paid them. $1.35 per animal unit per month. I pay over $2 a month to feed my small rabbits and he can feed a freaking cow for less. That is an incredible deal if you ask me.
5) Mr Bundy has been warned multiple times over the years that he cattle are in violation and they will be removed. Why the Feds waited so long I do not know. I suspect it was the costs. People are up in arms because the Feds showed up in force and were well armed. Even at a local level people show up with weapons when they seize animals. Case in point when AC shows up with the sheriffs department. Also worth noting the BLM offices have been bombed on multiple occasions. BLM officers go out in pairs and are in constant radio contact with their offices. Agents have been refused service in local businesses and many have received threats against themselves and their families. Mr Bundy and his supporters have eluded to the possibility of violence in their statements. Why people are surprised that the Fed showed up well armed is beyond me. To have not done that would have been idiotic imo.
I'm in total agreement that grazing rights should be larger and the tortoise should have to suck it up. Maybe instead of fighting the feds the ranchers should have taken out the tortoise lol. Then they would be changed from threatened to extinct. However Mr Bundy is in the wrong.
1) the Feds owned the land prior to Mr. Bundy's family setting up in Nevada. This has been clearly demonstrated in the Court system, when Mr. Bundy challenged it. He may not like it but it's not his land and he has to play by the rules. Yes we the people own this country but we are not free to do whatever we like on government land. We have to abide by restrictions.
2) Mr Bundy has paid grazing fees in the past. He made a decision to stop paying them when the laws changed. As such he has incurred a tons of fines, fees and interest over the past 20 years. I'll get to why he stopped next.
3) In 1993 the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) change the grazing permits. Due to the Desert Tortoise being an endangered species (later they changed it to threaten), you now could only graze 150 animal units on the land. A unit is a cow and it's calf, a cow without a calf, a horse, 5 sheep or goats and so on. Since we are talking about cattle, Bundy would be allowed a max of 300 cattle (if each cow had a calf). Bundy found this unacceptable and "fired" the BLM. He stopped paying the fees and ignored the new limits. As such the fines rapidly built up, which can be as high as $200 a day per head. At one point Bundy tried to pay the County the grazing fees but they declined it because he owes the money to the Federal Government. From a personal standpoint I don't give a hoot about the Tortoise. While I agree the 150 unit limit created financial hardship for ranchers but the rules are the rules. Fight to change the rules but abide by them until you can change them otherwise you will pay the price.
4) The grazing fee are incredibly cheap and there is no reason for Mr Bundy to not have paid them. $1.35 per animal unit per month. I pay over $2 a month to feed my small rabbits and he can feed a freaking cow for less. That is an incredible deal if you ask me.
5) Mr Bundy has been warned multiple times over the years that he cattle are in violation and they will be removed. Why the Feds waited so long I do not know. I suspect it was the costs. People are up in arms because the Feds showed up in force and were well armed. Even at a local level people show up with weapons when they seize animals. Case in point when AC shows up with the sheriffs department. Also worth noting the BLM offices have been bombed on multiple occasions. BLM officers go out in pairs and are in constant radio contact with their offices. Agents have been refused service in local businesses and many have received threats against themselves and their families. Mr Bundy and his supporters have eluded to the possibility of violence in their statements. Why people are surprised that the Fed showed up well armed is beyond me. To have not done that would have been idiotic imo.
I'm in total agreement that grazing rights should be larger and the tortoise should have to suck it up. Maybe instead of fighting the feds the ranchers should have taken out the tortoise lol. Then they would be changed from threatened to extinct. However Mr Bundy is in the wrong.
the tortoise stuff just makes it sound better in the news I guess? The land will probably turn to full desert after all this anyway :/ land is probably partially dependent on the cattle after all this time so either way it will end up badly in time.
