Healthy Herds - how to get?

Just been thinking about health issues in rabbits...and hearing over and over again that pasturella is often the cause.

Okay...what I hear from knowledgeable people is that 98% of the bunny population carries pasturella. And that pasturella can cause all types of problems in bunnies. That often a rabbit can be a carrier for it without a body even knowing.

That stress can cause it come out of hiding.
That another rabbit with an active virulent case can cause a major problem in a herd.

So if most every rabbit carries pasturella... why is it blamed for most rabbit diseases? Shouldn't the "other factor be blamed"?

If most rabbits carry it, then it goes to say that there must be a predicating factor that causes a virus/bacteria etc to change.

ERGO...building rabbits with a strong immune system and the ability to handle stress mentally should be the goal of every rabbit breeder yes?

If they did that... would that not cause the problems of pasturella to be lessened?

Therefore...how does one breed for it?

How does one go about saying...okay I had two rabbits sneezing... culled them out, now...what do I do about the rest of the herd? After all they were all exposed to the same rabbits. Does one cull everything? and if so why? if every rabbit carries it, you're just starting over again with potentially the same issues and possibly adding new ones.

Does one just keep everything that doesn't sneeze, show an abscess or weepy eye or (whatever)? Does one immediately cull animals that have ANY kind of a health issue (as one study (not the actual study read, just someone talking about it) I read said the enteropathic illnesses can also be pasturella based)?

That could decimate herds... but would it help long term?

I'm assuming that one CANNOT eradicate pasturella from a herd (since 98% of rabbits carry it), but how does one lessen it's impact?

For instance...if I lose rabbits in my herd....I lose them when the weather changes - spring/fall. Why.. NO clue..sometimes it seems like entropathic issues, and sometimes I just go...oh...dead rabbit. Seemed fine yesterday. Do I cull entire lines that do have issues? Do I keep the one survivor of the litter? What does one do to really focus on health in their rabbits?

Thank you for listening to me mull this over.

The simple solution is Yucca.

A study was done (this is from RabbitCon) a control group of rabbits were tested for Pasturella (a culture was done) 2/10 tested positive for it. They were kept in a barn with excellent air flow and kept clean daily without any stress factors. Except each rabbit had the pasturella bacteria applied to it's nose daily. After the control period 9/10 tested positive.

The 2nd group, first test 1/10 tested positive for pasturella. This control group had yucca in their food. They had poor air quality in their rabbitry and weren't cleaned as much as Test group 1. They each had pasturella bacteria applied directly to their noses and at the end of the control test, 1/10 rabbits tested positive for pasturella.

And it's only 1 cup of Yucca per 50lbs of feed.

ok where can you find yucca?

Ladysown, you ask good questions. Wish I had the answers!

Devon, can you please provide a link to this study?

There are multiple strains of Pasturella sp. Some are much more virulent than others. With most strains, healthy (and not inbred) rabbits are resistant to the disease. If one gets one of the highly virulent strains, it is going to level their rabbitry. That is one of the reasons to always be careful to isolate new rabbits completely away from the resident rabbits of ones rabbitry for at least a month. If the new rabbit carries the virulent strain, it will become very sick and/or die in this time. It is not easy for most of us to completely (physically) isolate new rabbit this way, so we keep them at one end of the hutches, or we only keep them isolated for a week or so. In other words we "cheat".. I have done this as have most other rabbit breeders. It is a gamble, and if one loses the bet, we will have to lose or eliminate our entire herd and completely disinfect the entire rabbitry, cages, waterers, feeders, and everything before we restock.

Luckily, because of the virulence of the really bad strains, the rabbitries that have it would almost have to sell sick stock on purpose. Sometimes even if a new rabbit gets the snuffles, it is a minor strain, and simply exhibited due to the stress of the move.... but who wants to take that chance?

If your rabbits (you own stock that you have had 6 months or more) get the snuffles, it is probably not a virulent case of Paturella, and it may not be Pasturella at all. When I got back into rabbits, I had a rabbit on occasion that would sneeze, or wipe its nose with its paws (clear discharge) I eliminated the animal fearing a problem. Later, on however, when I had additional rabbits (raised from my own kits) that were sneezing, I found, in every case, it was due to the hay....take away the hay and they stopped sneezing, give them hay again after a week or so, they started sneezing again. Because, I am seeking to keep a healthy cross-breed meat rabbitry, I decided to not keep those rabbits for breeders although they otherwise qualified. I consider "hay fever" a "fault" even though it is not catching, I don't want to spread any genes that might make the prone to allergies. If any of these rabbits had has some characteristic that was extremely important to me, I would have kept them to breed from, and eliminated any offspring from breeder contention that inherited the allergy trait.

These things are always much more of a problem to new breeders, or someone just getting back into rabbits, because their "new" rabbits are all they have to work with, and they have no history with them.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.... have a great day tomorrow, and weekend ahead. I know those of you in Canada have already observed your holiday, but every time we get family together for a good meal is a time to celebrate and be thankful.

The study was from RabbitCon. It was a presentation at the ARBA convention. The study was done and presented by Vets from Texas I believe.
Ladysown there was also a presentation on culling and keeping in your herd, it was all very interesting and informative, worth going to the convention for itself. Sorry it was not an internet based study. Yucca was first talked about last year in the San Diego RabbitCon. Yucca has been an additive in rabbit pellets and also in my dogs's kibble for quite a while and is well known for its suppression of ammonia formation in urine. So there is obviously a direct link to high ammonia levels (which destroy the lining of the respiratory tract)and the onset of "snuffles".

Thanks for the additional information about the study, Lauren.

Which yucca is my next question.

There are a gazillion different yuccas.

http://www.yuccaagavaceae.com/species.html

yucca schidigera

Interesting! Google-ing 2009 ARBA Convention turned up a Seminar list including: Applications of Yucca and Quillaja as Feed Additives for Rabbits by Dr. Peter Cheeke (OR)

Google-ing Dr. Cheeke and Yucca turned up a supplement product he sells:
http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=16340 I doubt it's available here in Canada and I'm sure shipping from the US would be cost prohibitive An interesting ingredient list for sure...

I've seen the powdered Yucca Schidigera advertised as equine supplement, so I'd try local horse supply dealers first.

$60 regular shipping to Canada based on a weight of 21.7 pounds, 107 if you want it in 2-4 days.

Yucca or not,
there are better ways to produce a disease resistant herd.
One must be strong on the fact that any rabbit showing signs of any disease
which is a strong sign of a weak resistance is culled!
They are not to be sold as anything but a feed source.
To retain such rabbits would be breeding that weakness
and fixing it into your herd/line.
It is not easy and takes a strong determination
to remove any rabbit from the herd regardless of their type or color
if they exhibit any signs of disease. It will not happen overnite
but persistence will pay high dividends if you have the strength of your convictions
and carry through till you reach your goal.
A disease resistant herd. Perseverance will win the race!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

Feed mills do made to order batches of feed if you buy the by the ton. So you can get feed ordered to your specifications (added yucca) if you buy a tonne mind you that's a lot of feed so you may want to split it with other breeders.

DevonW":2zlw9339 said:

Feed mills do made to order batches of feed if you buy the by the ton. So you can get feed ordered to your specifications (added yucca) if you buy a tonne mind you that's a lot of feed so you may want to split it with other breeders.

Click to expand...

Actually my feed mill will do half-ton batches. I'm already getting a custom mix (since no one else seems to want GMO free feed ) I will definitely call and see if they have access to the powdered yucca and can add it to my mix.

Hey, I expressed an interest in the non-GMO feed and then never heard any more! :shock:

If you can get yucca added to it, I'd definitely be interested. A Mini-Rex breeder at Rockton was telling me all about it and it sounds like a great idea.

i wanted it, even tried it, I was just starting to find it hard to get to kitchener every four weeks to pick up new bags, and if I guessed wrong about how much feed I'd need, I ran short and emergency trips of 1.5 hours didn't appeal to me any longer. Add the yucca and i'll reconsider.

Ok, next question is what percentage added to the feed? I've found suggested rates of 250g/ton and 100-300 ppm.

I know Devon said "1 cup", but I think the feed mill will need either a weight or a percentage. Does anyone have a feed with a tag that lists the % of yucca?

I know Martins Little friends has it added to their pellets, we use that for the house bunnies, it sure makes a big difference!

When I bought my rabbits recently, I settled upon one brand of feed against another, and both varieties I looked at most seriously had yucca in them (Manna Pro Sho and Purina Advant-Edge Professional). It is good for odor control as well as strengthening their immune systems.

Would to God that yucca had been added to feed in years gone by.

I spoke to the nutritionist at the mill that makes my feed and he said that yucca is a standard ingredient in their own brand of rabbit pellets. He went over some of the well documented studies showing the benefits (not that I needed convincing, I was calling to GET yucca). Anyway, they also make re-branded pellets for a number of suppliers and he wasn't positive that it was part of the formula in my brand, so I'm waiting for confirmation, but the quick answer was that my feed most likely already includes yucca extract at the recommended 250g per tonne.

very cool.