Breeding For Pets, Mixing Breeds and General Ethics

I want to start with a quality pair

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if you start with a show quality pair of Hollands you are going to have breeding problems. Even 'big uglies" have papers and are small enough to satisfy the publics desire for tiny rabbits, unfortunately even they often loose their first litters.

The only thing I wouldn't skimp on is ears, make sure they are perfect and come from a long line of perfect ears. Once my sister added lionhead genetics to her Mini Lops, we've been trying to get good lop ears back and it has not been easy. On the up side our size is down to 3.5 - 4.5 pounds.

Dood":3d8ele2j said:

I want to start with a quality pair

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if you start with a show quality pair of Hollands you are going to have breeding problems. Even 'big uglies" have papers and are small enough to satisfy the publics desire for tiny rabbits, unfortunately even they often loose their first litters.

The only thing I wouldn't skimp on is ears, make sure they are perfect and come from a long line of perfect ears. Once my sister added lionhead genetics to her Mini Lops, we've been trying to get good lop ears back and it has not been easy. On the up side our size is down to 3.5 - 4.5 pounds.

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I do appreciate the advice I told the woman I don't want show quality, but I also don't want pet quality. I'm hoping for a larger doe with a smaller buck. I am talking to a diff breeder about a doe as well, she's only got a pair, but she told me her doe's never had a problem kindling.

Oceanrose":1wioa4q8 said:

Transparency is a great thing, but being transparent opens you up to criticism. This can be good or bad. Critical thoughts are necessary to growth, but at the same time, criticism by those who don't know much, or don't choose to agree can be hurtful. Sure, there are some things others may reveal that are holes in our plan. Sometimes there are ways we can separate ourselves from the criticism and learn from it.


And finally: One thing that life has taught me is explain nothing. State your position, don't ask for approval, and be secure in your convictions for you. Don't worry about what others think about that .

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My thoughts exactly.

Breeding BEW to non BEW is a good way to get the type from the non BEW into you stock, anyone who is giving you flack for that knows nothing about breeding.

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I think their concern is that I will somehow breed vienna into my non-BEW rabbits, which..........no, I will not do that. They seem judgemental and ignorant though so I am largely just ignoring them.

In all honesty, I do feel like a breeder should be striving for something more than just breeding for pets to sell. It just makes no sense to me. It's not like you can make a whole butt load of money from them, unless you are cutting corners and lucky, and you certainly are not benefiting rabbits. My advice is, you do not want to screw up the colors. Color rules can be bent and you can let things slide sometimes if the conformation is benefical, but totally screwing it up is only going to give you even more headache. To be honest, I don't care if a color is not yet accepted by ARBA, as long as it is a usual color. Like Broken Lionheads. They will be accepted someday, and maybe you will be the one to help make that happen. But funky unusual colors and doing huge no-no mixes regularly is not going to benefit you in the long run. What I'm trying to say is, you don't want all your dedication and time put into a line that is going to be messed up genetically (color) wise. It doesn't benefit you, the rabbits or anybody else. Strictly just my opinion. But I also believe, YOUR rabbits YOUR decision.

But I'm breeding for BEW, so don't really need to follow all the colour rules, because my lines should never be mixed with non-BEW lines.

Bad Habit":lpr578ma said:

But I'm breeding for BEW, so don't really need to follow all the colour rules, because my lines should never be mixed with non-BEW lines.

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Yeah! That's what I think too. I think all the color rules, like not breeding harlies, or magpies, or brokens don't apply to you. The only color rules that may apply to BEW are not breeding to shaded, chocolate, rew- colors with ruby eyes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but with the vienna gene only solid white blue eyed rabbits are showable, and Anything else in the litter, even if it's a showable color like solid black probably won't be showable because it will have white vienna markings or half blue eyes or white toes. And like you said no one else should breed to your lines if they are working on non BEW lines- so I don't think you need to worry so much about non showable colors. Also, wouldn't it be horrible if people all culled all the cool colors like harlequin because it can't be shown- and the gene disappeared. :shock:

Well, yes and no, Squidpop.

You might be able to show a VC, or a kit from a litter with VM parents, but you should only breed it for BEW. Anything that comes from VM lines, or BEW lines, should be assumed to be at least VC. I am very honest with people, if I know they are interested in breeding from my rabbits, that the rabbit may be VC, may throw VM.

A rabbit can be VC and not show any sign of it at all. That's where the problem comes in. You can't count on a VC animal to have that blue in the eye, or a mismarked toenail, or a patch of white on it. If it is possible to have vienna, then treat the rabbit like a VC.

The buck I'm keeping back to breed is a harlequin vienna. I'm weeding out the shaded in my lines, and buying 2 new does, a tort vienna and a black otter vienna.

You do really know your stuff. It all sounds good, I'd love to have a magpie ar harlequin. did I say I've been working on vienna too, I live in New Zealand and I want to try for Bew Jersey Wooly- but there aren't any here- so I looked into importing from Australia and it cost $1700 minimum so finally after a year of looking I found a BEW Netherland dwarf (also very rare in NZ) and am breeding it to two jersey woolies from different lines— I had a hard time finding any Jersey Wooly does that didn't have shaded genes or a parent that was rew. I've noticed breeders are often really negative toward anyone breeding Vienna even in New Zealand. There is a rabbit forum with a tight circle of breeders in New Zealand and when I talked about my project on a forum I too got a lot of snide comments like— "Vienna, That's how the NZ flemish giants got ruined- people trying to breed blue eyed viennas- now they all have white spots and their ears aren't long enough."- So people blame any mismark problems in their herd on Vienna and hold a grudge.

Bad Habit":2sudyqm5 said:

ckcs":2sudyqm5 said:

Bad Habit":2sudyqm5 said:

I've been told that I'm stupid for having(and wanting) broken lionheads. The fact of the matter is, I just don't care anymore. If rabbit a has a big butt, and rabbit b has a narrow butt, I'm going to breed them, and hope for an average butt, and who cares about the colours!

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What is the argument against broken lionheads? I'm curious as I find them quite adorable. I recently had 2 8week old babies for sale, one was a broken black and the other a fawn with some soot throughout her mane. Out of the 10 or so inquiries I received, everyone was for the broken black. People loved the broken. I may have had a hard selling the fawn if it were not for the fact that the person fell in love with both of them.

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Why am I bothering with broken lionheads when they're not even accepted as a breed yet, I should be focusing on the colours that will be accepted, rather than anything else.

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If you like them, well
have fun, broken to broken will get you 1/4 charlie, 1/2 broken and 1/4 solid
have fun with your solids, and see if you can't find who's working on the broken ticket to see if maybe you can't show at nationals