d'argent

I've been looking in to getting some d'argent as meat rabbits since I would have to travel too far for chinchilla rabbits and I'm wondering about the different colors. I see creme and champagne are listed as separated breeds on ARBA.net so if you cross the 2 colors do you effectively no longer have a pedigreed purebred rabbit? Or do you just risk ruining the color so it's a DQ? Anyone know the genetics behind the d'argent colors and what happens when you mix them?

I'm having a heck of a time finding a breeding group of a specific one and was debating a champagne buck with creme does as the foundation of my meat colony. It seems finding any potential meat breed aside from new zealands, californian, and unknown white mutts that so and so gave them for $5/each 3 years ago is very difficult around here.

If you are breeding for MEAT rabbits,
the color/breed mixing does not matter.
If you want to keep the breeds clean you can,
by breeding those kits from each litter
that look most like the particular breed color together.
Within three or four generations you will
be able to clean up the genetics. Crossing breeds is used
to improve type or color then through proper breeding technique
the lines are cleaned up. I wouldn't worry too much about mixing the colors.
Dennis, C.V.R.

Cremes and Champagnes are different breeds. As I understand it they Cremes are more distantly related to the Champagnes than the Champagnes and Blues are. (i.e. I would not interbreed them).

D'Argent (pronounced like Dar-John) means silver. So it refers to rabbits with a silver coat. A similar situation exists with the Chinchilla rabbits. The American and Giant Chinchillas are not related, even though they have the same name. Chinchilla just refers to the color of fur. Cross them and you no longer have a pedigreed purebred rabbit.
You might as well be asking if you will have a pure breed if you cross a Californian and a New Zealand.

Now, purebred is a loose term that means the rabbit conforms to the Standard of Perfection and has all of the same type of breed it is being shown as listed on a three generation pedigree. So technically you can have a "cross bred" rabbit that is a "purebred" rabbit.

I have a line of Champagnes that I got from a breeder that throws some unusual colorings. Colorings that no body else who has a Champagne has ever seen. What does that mean? Means they were crossbred at one point. Probably at least a dozen generations back judging by what I can gather from the different pedigrees. (i.e. the are pure bred that far back unless there are some false records).

Is that a problem? Yes and maybe no. Maybe no because if the person knew what they were doing then maybe the new blood improved a feature on the Champagnes, like the fur color of the meat on the back. If they knew what they were doing. Yes it is a problem because now I get some rather strange rabbits that I can not show from that line. Of course I can breed them out, but that is more time and expenses on my part.

The question is what is your goal? If you are just looking for meat rabbits then go ahead and get the mutts. If you are going to interbreed them and make mutt rabbits what is the harm of starting with mutt rabbits? If you are going to be selling some of your stock to off set the feeding and keeping costs, I would go with the pure bred. Both of them are a rare and heritage breed that is in danger of extinction. That means the people what that breed for a reason. The thrill of having a "rare" rabbit. Preserving genetics, what ever. You can sell a pedigreed rabbit for more than a mutt. Although if your mutt market is better than you might make more there. But if you do not want to make any money from them just get the so and so rabbits and breed up.

I only mention all this because I originally started out just getting rabbits to eat. I purchased some mutt foundation stock. Now have have purebred pedigreed rabbits because they cost the same amount to keep, I can eat the culls and sell any good ones as breeding stock for a lot more than I could a mutt. Now most of my income comes from the selling of breeding stock.

Just some thoughts. I have basically agreed with ottersatin here but I am more long winded. :-D

For meat rabbits I highly recommend the Argent Breeds although less common then NZ and Cal's their dress out is at most times better. (And those pelts? They sell like hot cakes.)

Mixing the Black Blue Chocolate and Lilac Argent breeds are alright, since they are all self colours. Because Cremes are non extension agouti, it is best to keep them out of self crosses or you'll end up with a bunch of chestnuts with silvering and who knows what else.

My Argente Bruns came out of an old old line of Champagne D'argents, and I've heard it's very common for Argente Bleu to pop up in Champagne litters as well.

For meat it's all up to you for your crosses, and for show they don't need a pedigree they just need to be a good representation of the breed. You only really need a pedigree if you intend to register the animals.

"I've heard it's very common for Argente Bleu to pop up in Champagne litters as well."

I have had two of them birthed in my litters. The first one was in a litter of four bucks. Was my first litter. I did not think anything of it at the time but I did happen to saw him. Out of my last litter I have one doe this is a Bleu. I am going to breed both of them and see what I get.

You seem to know more about the genetics DevonW. I am a bit confused after looking at the British rabbit sites. http://www.thebrc.org/Argente.html and http://www.thebrc.org/argente.htm. I have Champagnes, but they look closer to what they call the Argent Noir. Everything I have seen called a Creme stateside looks like an orange rabbit. Theirs looks more white to me. After reading over your comment again I am wondering if I was wrong. Are you saying that the different colors are variations of the breed? I knew the the Bleu and Brun came from the main Champagne line so I figured it way okay to cross to some extent. (The Brun and Bleu are not ARBA standards so...) Can you clarify?

There is a bit of a debate whether all Argents should be classified as one breed with different colour varieties or kept separate. Slight variations in size is the only thing that differs with them body wise. The Argent Breed has been around since the 1600's and because there is a lack of records you can't really be sure whether they were made as separate breeds or just different varieties of one breed.

The difference between the Argente Noir and the Champagne D'Argent is size. The Noir is a smaller rabbit (no more then 6lbs). The Champagne is over 8lbs. I have to say though, the pictures on the BRC website are in poor lighting so looks can be somewhat deceiving.

This little note on Brun colour can be used for any Argent you just have to substitute brun for the respective colour you're looking for.



There is a COD for Bruns in ARBA, and they're already recognized by the BRC, and the DR&CBA (Canada).

As for the Cremes they seem more like fawn rabbits because they seem to have a lack of even silvering.