Why Is She So Mean?!

Alright, I've got a love-hate relationship going on with the Dust Mop. I think she's gorgeous, she has a lot of great hair and she can be an awesome addition to my breeding program... Except she's SO mean! She was supposed to have been bred before she came here, so I excused it to being a hormonal pregnant doe, but it's day 32, there's no kits, I can't feel anything inside of her, so I'm thinking she missed. Which means, I am left with an evil evil doe. She attacks me whenever I reach into her cage, or touch her, or anything. When I'm cleaning her cage, if I let her down, she just attacks my feet/legs instead of my hands/arms. I have to confine her run around space, or I can't catch her, since I am nervous about getting my face anywhere near her. I have to force her to submit to the most routine of care. I've tried bribing her, I've tried tying her hair back(thinking her eyes hurt and she had trouble seeing), I've even tried firmly pinning her to the ground when she boxes me. Nothing works, she is simply getting meaner and meaner as she gets to know me.

I really don't know what to do at this point. I don't want to breed her and end up with more mean rabbits. I don't know if this is that she's gotten away with everything in the past and just feels entitled, or if something happened, or if she is just naturally this mean. She might end up being put to sleep if I can't figure this out, as I don't want to be stuck with a mean rabbit that I can't breed, and I don't feel right selling her on because of her anger issues.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I am willing to try anything, as I want to keep her, and be able to breed her, without her shredding my skin, or having to be worried that she'll ruin my face.

I've had my run in with evil does as well. The ONE thing I've found that worked really well, so well that I no longer have to worry about her lunging at me or trying to bite me, is...culling her. I'm sorry I don't have any good suggestions out there but there is one thing I don't stand in my breeders and that is a bad attitude, I have enough of that with my kids.

Yeah, I had Lily who was kind of mean, but NOTHING compared to this. I mean, Lily got to understand that yeah, she didn't like me going into her space, but if she just sat in her litter box sulking, nothing bad would happen, and she'd usually end up with food/hay/treats. Mop hasn't clued into that one. I do expect specific things from my rabbits, and one of them is not actively attacking me. I excuse the occasional nip or grunt, the very rare box...

I am reluctant to completely give up on her, as she's only been here a little over a month. She's only just left quarantine, after I satisfied myself that having her hair pulled back stopped the eye issues. I'm hoping that having her in my room helps her relax with me a little bit, and hopefully convince her I have no intentions of hurting her.

Some mean rabbits calmed down after I put them in a cage with a bigger alpha rabbit. Only works if they don't fight back and get bullied by the bigger rabbit. If it stop being aggressive and hunch up in the corner, it's probably learned it's lesson.

I haven't had any truly "mean" rabbits, but I did have Evil Blue who would box at me. Even my doe Magma who was handled a ton when she was a kit (because all but two in the litter died and I had her in the house), turned out to be very unfriendly and would growl and grumble at me.

Evil Blue took the most work, but eventually settled down, and Magma settled soon after having her first litter. She is one of my most lovey does now.

I would wait until you have bred her a couple of times before writing her off as nasty. When animals (and people) give birth and when they are nursing, they release a hormone called prolactin, commonly known as "the feel good hormone". It fills the mother with contentment and love, and is thought to be largely responsible for the bonding between mother and child. In fact, women that are prone to post-partum depression do much better if they nurse their babies rather than bottle feed because of this.

I have found with both our barn cats (some of which tend to be on the wild side) and our rabbits that by taking advantage of the release of prolactin and interacting with them while they are in that state of euphoria, they soon associate us with those good feelings and remain tame ever after.

The only other thing I can suggest is to take her out of her cage daily and spend 5 to 10 minute with her on a grooming table. Give her a "massage" of sorts, by stroking her firmly head to tail and tail to head. During this time lift her up and put her down several times- just far enough that if she kicks she will only kick air, and then set her back down when she stops. If she starts to kick on the way back down, lift her up again. Never set a kicking rabbit down if you can help it. I'm sure I don't need to tell you to talk to her while doing all of this, because I imagine you chatter to your pets all the time, but do speak to her and tell her what a good bunneh she is. After the session, when you return her to her cage, once again make sure she isn't struggling when you put her down. Hold her in place for a second, so she can't just bolt off. Then give her a treat.

I wouldn't allow her any free exercise until you have seen some progress with her, since the more she displays aggressive behavior, the more ingrained it will become.

Good luck! I hope she calms down soon.

Calm Assertive Energy! I apply it to everything I do, especially when interacting with energy. If I get frustrated, I walk away. I can't stroke the mop back to front, she'd murder me, because her hair is so long all over that it hurts her for it to go the wrong way, and it mats up. She had just been weaned from her litter when I picked her up, which might explain why she's gotten worse rather than better.

I'm going to suck it up, and get someone to pin her down while I cut her hair, or cut her hair while I pin her down. I can't tie her hair anymore, because she lost an elastic and I couldn't find it... I'm hoping it got mixed in with her litter box and I just didn't see it(it was black).

I don't have any rabbits bigger than her, so I can't put her in with a bigger doe. I was thinking about putting the albino brat in with her, but I'm worried he will either pick up her bad habits, or suddenly mature and breed her, resulting in a hugely unwanted litter of babies. I'm also concerned she will beat the snot out of him. He's actually the closest in size I have to her, other than Firecracker.

I do take her out every day, brush her, talk to her. Don't put her down when she's kicking. Spend more time with her than I do the other rabbits. Feed her tidbits, give her each grain individually so I'm going into her cage and offering treats 6 times a day, plus regular feed/hay/water. Some days she's fine, she just sits in the box and watches me do my thing, others she is outright mean, and I've had to use the litter scoop to block her when I go in her cage. I just use it to keep her in the litter box when she charges, she strikes at it but it doesn't hurt her or fight back, it just stays there. Then she'll have a few more good days, and go back to being mean for a day or two. I don't see anything that links her mean days, or her good days.

I was told when I bought her that she had been a little girl's pet for the first 9mths, then went out to the rabbit shed because she bit the little girl. She just got meaner after that, but was apparently okay when she had her litter(probably that hormone you're talking about, MSD).

I am going to give her a chance, because I really want a buck from Firecracker and her. I will let her raise her first litter, but if they're mean/skittish then I'll breed her back to FC at the same time I breed Hannah, and foster the babies around, see what attitudes I get(Hannah is the sweetest, and her babies were all so friendly and curious before. She'll get three litters, the final one will be with Dobby, and I'll keep a doe back from that litter to replace her, and put her to sleep. I don't want to give up on her, but again, I can't take on the liability if she attacks someone else.

Good luck with Dust Mop! I sure hope she'll settle down for you.

Interested case study: A friend of ours bred a really mean, nasty French Lop doe, and she ended up trying to kill her babies when they were born. In fact she did succeed in eating half of them.
They rescued the remaining rabbits and fostered them onto another perfectly nice doe. But, it turns out all of those babies (even though they were raised by a gentle doe) became just as aggressive as their real Mother. They ended up in the freezer.

I remember hearing about a big study that took wild foxes, and bred them all in captivity. Then they took the more timid, quite kits from each litter and bred them to each other. Likewise, they took the most out-going, aggressive kits and bred them together. After years of breeding they created two lines of Fox: One that was gentle enough to become house pets for people, the other that would kill you if you turned you back on them.
The moral to the story is: Temperament is genetic, and we can affect it in either direction by selective breeding.

I sympathize with you.....I had a stunning Holland lop doe, that was just fabulous in everyway. But she was like a pitbull. (Literally, she could growl and snarl like a dog :twisted: !)
I did try and breed her once.....but I knew I would have to hold onto all of her kits until they were at least 6 months old, and I knew they didn't inherit her attitude. But, like the French Lop doe, she didn't raise her babies.
So I decided to put her down.
It just wasn't worth breeding her again, hoping she raised her babies, and then using all that extra cage space to hold on to them unitl I knew they wouldn't be mean.
I have since thought about it, and decided our official policy will be to never, ever, ever, breed any rabbit into our herd if they're mean. I don't care how nice they are, I just will not sacrifice type for attitude. What's the point of having a nice rabbit if you can't handle them? Plus rabbits that act aggressive can be an instant DQ from the show table.
My goal as a breeder is to raise healthy rabbits that advance their breed, do well on the showtable, and at the same time would be sweet, easy to handle, and suitable family pets. If that's my mission statement, then for me, no rabbit with attitude issues will ever fit into my breeding program.

Good-luck with your doe! I hope she can turn it around.

I don't know if it's a genetic disposition issue though. The breeder who bred her told me she was a very sweet girl, and that both her parents were very sweet as well. I'm hoping it is an attitude problem from getting her own way too long, and that I can train it out of her. I know that Lily turned around relatively quickly after I had the wherewithal to top retreating whenever she struck at me. With the Mop, it's definitely more ingrained, as it was longer that she was allowed to get away with it.

I started the squirt bottle treatment today. She gets angry and starts thumping, or trashing her cage(not playful trashing, but you can tell she's MAD). I squirted her once, and you could see her stop to think about it for a minute, then sit in her box and groom herself. She hasn't had a tantrum since, though, and that was about 2hrs ago.

Well.... Let me tell you about Kayla.

Kayla was my pearl point freebie doe. She had been returned to her breeder at 7 months old, because she had attacked her young owner. The breeder gave her to me as a bonus. Kayla HATED the world. She hated me. I'd walk by, she'd growl, I reached into her cage she'd attack (and bite). I'd toss a dish towel over her to pick her up. The breeder swore her parents had good temperaments, and I believed her. I really think she had a bad experience with her owner.

Kayla however was a great mom. She raised her babies, loved them, and every one (out of probably 12 litters I had from her), had a lovely temperament.So did all their babies, even when linebred on Kayla. No daughter even had a bad personality that way. Nature vs nurture? I don't know. But I know since she produced my best rabbits (the top winner ended up with 12 legs, a BOSB out of 140 rabbits, a 3rd place at both the ARBA and ANDRC National). But she sure hated me till the day I sold her.. And she hated that woman too.

Now the rabbits I have now.. I have the ones who I raised who are SUPER sweet. And I have a chocolate buck I bought that likes me, and a REW doe who likes me. Then there's Lizzie and Sabrina. Sabrina was 5 months old when I got home, and she liked me, in a curious way. Until I plucked her out. She grumbles every time I walk by her cage. I haven't been pushing her, just letting her chill out for a bit. Her mom, Lizzie, was just a huddled in the back of her cage scardy bunny. I actually was so unimpressed by her personality I bred her in hopes I could sell her in May at the Angora National. I'll be darned if she's now letting me pick her up without freaking out and appearing calmer. Rabbits are WEIRD!

Only you can decide what to do, I think I'd breed her once and then re-evaluate. There is also a chance that she had bad experiences. Maybe she hates to be brushed due to bad experiences with the 9 yo...?

This is something I keep coming back to anytime a thread like this pops up. Keep a plastic cup near her cage. When you reach into her cage and she lunges at you, grab the cup and whack her on the bridge of the nose with it. In a relatively short period of time, she will get the message and stop that nonsense. I've seen it work with too many rabbits for anyone to convince me that it doesn't work.

I had rabbits that dosnt even come close to attacting like that ,, they went in the freezer. If i cant touch them ,, they are in the freezer
I will not sell or give away any thing like that...
I will not breed anything like that.
I just culled two adult because they were skittish... I hate skittich rabbits. They have to like to be petted in their cage. Have great personality,and lift for the male. ect. I guess i am very stricted when it comes to my own rabbits. why go through that..

I don't want to derail the topic but I'm curious. Why would her hair hurt if you pet her? Is it matted? Are you sure it hurts? Maybe she's just being touchy because she's not friendly. A rabbit's hair shouldn't hurt just from petting it. When they groom themselves they lick and pull it every which way with no problems.

arachyd":740u6vu6 said:

I don't want to derail the topic but I'm curious. Why would her hair hurt if you pet her? Is it matted? Are you sure it hurts? Maybe she's just being touchy because she's not friendly. A rabbit's hair shouldn't hurt just from petting it. When they groom themselves they lick and pull it every which way with no problems.

Click to expand...

Because it tangles easily, and then pulls. And really, I don't know any animal that likes being stroked backwards, lol. It doesn't bother her to be pet, when she's having a good day, but I wouldn't attempt to pet her backwards, knowing how easily her hair can tangle up and how quickly her mood can change.

I know that a lot of people would have given up on her, but I like what this doe can add to my breeding program, and she's only been here a month. Rabbits in quarantine unfortunately do not get as much interaction from me as the other rabbits, due to where I have to quarantine, and the need to wash up/change shirts after handling them. With non-quarantined rabbits, I can just go over and pet them, and not have to think about all the quarantine related rules. Plus they are in my room with me, so I am just generally around them more often.

I really am hoping that now that she's out of the bathroom, and into my room, she'll mellow out a bit. Perhaps seeing first hand what kind of affection the "good" rabbits get will inspire her to be less of a brat. I'm one of those people who thinks they can do it all, though, and that no animal can't be handled/tamed. I'm definitely not going to give up on her before she's had a litter here. I know that that's when I made the greatest strides on taming Lily, was after she had her first litter.

She will be bred the beginning of January to Firecracker, assuming he's had nothing crop up since coming here. I will see how she acts during that pregnancy and with the litter, and will continue m program of being calm and friendly around her, but not giving her an inch. Supposedly her kits are all friendly and both parents were as well, so I'm really hoping it was just something traumatic that happened to her, then being allowed to get away with everything, rather than not getting away with anything and nipping the issue in the bud.

Been there done that. Culled my top biggest litter producing doe, kindles two litters in the heat. Bred her to two of the sweetest bucks I've ever met. So far I have culled all but one of the 20 + kits she's had. Bad attitudes, come out swinging, biting, fighting, even though I've handled them since birth. And I still might cull the last one. Looks looks like her mom, acts like her mom. I won't take any more chances.

I put the REW baby in with her. She's quite confused, but not being mean to him. A bit of dominance humping, and he submitted right away. A couple of nips, and then they were grooming each other. That REW boy is about 8wks old now, so I'm hoping that he shows her how much nicer it is to have the cage opened and get treats and pets rather than striking out and being angry.

Personally I find no genetics are worth it when you have a mean doe. It took 5 generations to get sane does (the bucks were better without all those hormones) from demon rabbit. I kept a buck each generation and butchered the rest so as not to pass them on to someone else. Finally 5th generation I could keep a doe for breeding without being attacked. I was breeding to extremely calm, laid back animals.

Yes, but that's hereditary meanness. I believe that her issues stem from something traumatic happening to her, that may not be passed down to her babies. Lily was mean because I rewarded her behaviour in the beginning, but her babies are all very sweet.

---

Sigh. The Mop is getting more and more strikes against her. Last night, I came home, she was brown. I don't know what, exactly, had happened, but she was coated in sawdust, urine, poop... Not cool. I had to give her a bath, as she's already proven herself to not be the best at keeping herself clean, and I didn't want to be dealing with stains. It came out fairly easily. She ripped big holes in the towel I used to dry her off.

She's also disgustingly messy. I don't know how she does it, but her cage is constantly filled with poop/pee. I clean it, and come back 10 minutes later, and it's filthy and needs cleaning again. She flat out refuses to use a litter box. Doesn't matter how clean it is, or where I put it. she was using the opposite end of her cage for a potty, so I moved the litter box there, and she switched ends. Okay... I put a second litter box in, and she starts using the empty center portion of her cage. I could put her in an all wire cage, but knowing her, she'd figure out a way to poop and pee out the sides.

At this point, I'm tempted to breed her early, or possibly not at all. She frustrates me so much. The spray bottle isn't working, it's just making things worse. She doesn't outright attack the baby I put in there, but she also doesn't care about him - he isn't calming her down at all.

She's also been giving me strings of brown pearls... I started feeding her all the things that are supposed to prevent wool block - even went so far as to buy some timothy hay from the pet store(I buy alfalfa/grass by the bale). I upped her brushings to twice a day. Still brown pearls. Don't know how she's ingesting so much hair when she almost never cleans herself.

What a waste of money. I'm looking for a replacement already. So depressing that my first pedigree rabbit is so useless. Kinda scared to breed her, as I'm now thinking that, with my luck with her, she'll have stuck kits, or will be sterile or something. If I do breed her, I'll probably foster her spotted kits to Hannah, and hope for the best. I want to get at least one litter from her, if only to make back the money I spent on her.

What a bad situation
As a breeder, I am thinking "Boy, I hope my rabbits never do that to the people I sell them to" --I would hate for a buyer to wonder if I had lied and snookered them.

But if the seller did fudge the truth on you, that is such a shame.

Either way, it sounds like you are prepared to deal with the kits if they do not turn out the way they should.

I am sorry you are having this trouble, and I hope your next pedigree animal purchase is not such a hardship.

Well, I was told that she was mean, but it was not impressed upon me quite HOW mean she is. I thought she'd be like Lily - a relatively good doe who was rewarded for bad behaviour by an inexperienced owner *blush*. Lily's babies have all turned out sweet, provided the owner doesn't pull away on the first few challenges for dominance. I want to at least try babies from the Mop.

I need to start a new thread about my breeding plans.