I'm coming across some weird stuff in my search to compare various sables and chins. I found this orange sable
http://omletcdn.co.uk/images/cache/664/ ... 5817e5.jpg

Problem is orange/red is agouti with nonextension while sable is self so what the heck is it? Chocolate sable? Does sable lighten chocolate the same as it does a black base or only the black? A very light sable martin, maybe with some rufus modifiers? Nonextension sable martin? Shagouti? but I'm finding agouti sable which gets called light chin or chin sable has a larger black mask instead of a very small one and usually some type of ticking. I don't know. I want one.

That's a straight up black tort. It has absolutely no shading and an awesome Rufus factor. It "could" also be a chocolate tort. The standard in the UK is probably not quite the same as here.

Someone miss filed it on one of the websites then under the sables and all the torts I have are grey down the sides. Must be a ton of good rufus modifiers. Even the feet are a nearly even red.

Thats always possible. There is no way that red would be showing up with the chin gene.