Need spay/neuter advice from all you rabbit experts!

I'd like to go on record as saying that spaying and neutering isn't for animals. It's for people and unfortunately it's a necessary evil because the general population can barely control their own breeding habits let alone that of their pets. I'm a responsible pet owner. However my neighbor isn't. If my cat or dog isn't spayed or neutered then his free roaming dog or cat can possibly get mine pregnant. I've seen male dogs climb a 6 foot fence just to get to a b*tch in heat.

Considering that we have rabbits in this topic. Which breed well, like rabbits, for the normal run of the mill household I recommend spaying and neutering. I have seen behavior conducive to the rabbit being eaten or given away alleviated by spaying and neutering. For instance my old boss had a female rabbit that was the sweetest bunny ever and then she hit puberty and became the most violent evil bunny ever. I expected some night she was going to use wire cutters on her cage and slit her owner's throats in their sleep. I thought maybe it was because he and his family didn't know how to handle her but I brought her home with me and she was still a horrid bunny. Lunging, biting, scratching. It even got to where they were afraid to feed her because she would attack before they even opened her cage. So I took her as a last ditch effort to get spayed. 2 weeks later she was back to being the sweetest bunny ever.

My male bunny Hermes. Love him to death. But when he hit puberty he began spraying everything including me. Sorry can't have that in a house bunny. So off he went to get neutered and no spraying since. No health issues and he came through the surgery just fine. In fact the vet said he was up and aware before they even finished cleaning up. They are using short term gas for anesthesia now which means the animals are down for shorter times and can come out of it quicker which means less problems.

The same aggression and territorial marking can be a death sentence for pets. And if a simple procedure can prevent them from being euthanized then I'm all for it. All of my pets are altered once they hit the proper age. I don't spay and neuter at 8 weeks like the humane society or shelters but I do maintain that I need to be responsible for my pets and since accidents can happen and other people are not responsible then spaying and neutering is the best option.

you spend a day euthanizing 37 animals and then try talking to me about spay neuter being problematic

(and by euthanizing I am not talking about using animals for food)
That's just my point Brody,
if you are going to euthanize any number of rabbits they should serve some purpose.
Perhaps they could help some other animal in need of a meal.
To euthanize and toss into the trash/compost heap seems to me
a waste of a good nutritious meal. I will say no more on the subject
as I can see that we will just have to agree to disagree.
I will go on to other more acceptable things.
Dennis, C.V.R.

I was asked in a lovely email about the issue Dennis raises here ... so I'm actually replying to the thoughtful gently asked email which says much the same thing - if you have to euthanzie shelter rabbits why not use them as feed?

theorotically it's not a bad idea ... but there are a couple of issues that leap to mind

as a trained euth tech I know one humane method for euthing animals - that involves tranq and drugs ...
I would not be comfortable using other methods to kill some animals and don't have the training to do so

rabbits as a food source for the kenel dogs/cats couldn't be regular enough not to cause potential digestive upset - 15 years + in the field and I can tell you animals whose digestive systems are stressed when they are stressed get sick more and are a mess to try to clean up

I think there would be public reaction as well - people would wonder - were you taking rabbits in knowing they might end up reducing your bottom line by turning into feed (and perhaps even were you breeding animals on purpose to create feed) shelters are usually publically funded - well they are all aren't they- either through tax dollars, donations or a combo? It would be a PR nightmare

Thanks so much for your honest question - I took it totally that way, and thought answering it here might be important too given the last post.
Dennis I have sent you a pm.

Oh my gosh, I can hear the urban legends now, all pets would be getting ground up along with amputated human parts or something!! I absolutely hadn't thought of that angle! :roll:

Hi everyone, thank you all for your comments. I appreciate hearing from those of you who have gone thru having a pet rabbit spayed/neutered and your experience with that. It was not my intent to start a spay/neuter disagreement here, though I cannot agree that spay/neuter is a dirty deed. I have always altered all of my animals at appropriate ages as I refuse to contribute to pet overpopulation. I certainly have more control over whether or not my rabbit breeds compared to dogs and cats but my main concerns were safty of the spay procedure in rabbits and health issues in unbred/unspayed does later in life.

glad to have been offer some help - talk to your vet and make CERTAIN they have done rabbit surgery before - if they haven't ask them to refer you to someone who has

Maggie that post was not written by me.only the first sentence was my post.<br /><br />__________ Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:12 pm __________<br /><br />Im not against spaying pets,My cat is spayed.in some cases it does help the hormone issues.I just want too caution people too get a vet that is used too working with rabbits.

curlysue":2hpokmal said:

Maggie that post was not written by me.only the first sentence was my post.

__________ Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:12 pm __________

Im not against spaying pets,My cat is spayed.in some cases it does help the hormone issues.I just want too caution people too get a vet that is used too working with rabbits.

Click to expand...

Curly Sue, I do realize that now and I do apologize.

I'm hoping posters will make better use of the QUOTE button when they reply to something someone else has written. It would prevent mix-ups like this one.

Brody,
it is not necessary to use medications/lethal injections to euthanize a rabbit.
You have no understanding of what I posted previously.
The problem is: Every rabbit does not have to be "saved"
nor should it! Rabbits are a versatile animal and were a food source
long before they were ever thought of as Pets or Show animals.
Instead of wasting time, money and space on rabbits that would be
better used as a food for either Human or Animals in need of a excellent
high protein diet. Many of those who claim to want to save the rabbit/animal
end up tossing them in the nearest trash bin.
I realize that you are too blind to see/allow any opinion
differing from your own, but in your heart, you know that there is
more than one way to skin a Cat!
Oh yeah I so your PM and I didn't think much of it.
At least I CAN agree to disagree and allow you
Your opinion, that is more than you will allow ME!
I am sorry that you feel the way you do,
but my opinion is MY opinion and I am sticking to it!
Have a good day.
Dennis.

Of course I allow you your opinion.. I disagree with it mightly on the topic of spay and nueter and I stick by that. I can't say that I will let go of my attempt to educate the public about the BENEFITS of spay and neuter for rabbits ... I went to pm as I felt this discussion between you and I added nothing to the thread about spay nueter .. we obviously feel strongly about this issue - but were straying from an educational focus with the use of perjorative words (like dirty)

I'd like to know where I said drugs were the only way to kill a rabbit? I didn't say that as I know it's not true - I did say it was the only method I was comfortable and trained in

this board is a place where pet and fibre and meat people can feel comfortable talking ... for many people rabbits are pets - much loved and cherished pets in fact .. is that the only way to see rabbits? No (as I made clear in my pm). Is it a viable and valued way to see rabbits? of course.

I really think if you care to discuss this further we need to go back to pm's ... I am very very sorry you feel the way do as well - on that I can agree to disagree.

Brody,
the reason I posted is:
Because if you do not euthanize the rabbit/animal with Medications
the rabbits will still remain usable as a feed source.
I realize that the vast majority on this forum
do not believe in using rabbits as a food.
I am not saying they or you should, just that it should
be seen as an acceptable solution to end the endless waste
of what might help some to have a full stomach.
I hope we can all just learn to accept that we all might
not see things as a another does.
I have no argument with you nor anyone else on this forum.
Dennis, C.V.R.

I actually think I'm one of VERY few people on the board who don't eat rabbit or use it for my dogs

that said you have totally hijacked the thread and I am generally a pretty tolerant person ..

back to the point

Spaying/nuetering your rabbit is a reasonable and sensible option if you have fibre/pet animals that you don't want reproducing
there is evidence that female rabbits particularly live longer if "altered" - I'm not actually sure if there are stats for males
a rabbit savy vet can be very quick about the procedure relatively and there is not a significant risk to the animal being knocked out .. surgery is ALWAYS risky and the pros and cons should be wieghed for each animal and each person

you have totally hijacked the thread and I am generally a pretty tolerant person .

OOOPS! Sorry to have upset the applecart.
Dennis.

Brody":2d0tkit4 said:

Of course I allow you your opinion.. I disagree with it mightly on the topic of spay and nueter and I stick by that. I can't say that I will let go of my attempt to educate the public about the BENEFITS of spay and neuter for rabbits ... but were straying from an educational focus with the use of perjorative words (like dirty)

Click to expand...

words like dirty... maybe. but, reading thru this thread you've contributed a fair amount of attacks and jabs. There are better ways, maybe, you might be able to get your point across, Brody. Your verbage reads to be condescending, snarky and borderline bullying.

Please... for some nine months now, this forum has been a place where we can agree to disagree, without biting someone's head off. It is a pleasant, rare place where pet rabbit people, fiber rabbit people, meat rabbit people, show rabbit people, shelter people, and all other kinds of rabbit people can gather to discuss rabbits. We can learn from each other about their feeding, housing, illnesses, responsible breeding, and so forth.

There are other rabbit forums that limit their scope to house rabbits only. There are other rabbit forums that don't limit the scope, but have flaming and fighting and feelings worn on sleeves. We don't want either.

It can be difficult, when you have a strong opinion about something, to convey that opinion in writing on a forum (where tiny smiley faces are just about the only way to clarify the tone of what you are writing) in such a way that it does not offend someone else. It is important as the writer to realize that and to do the best job possible to be clear, so that no one feels attacked. It is equally important as the reader and responder, to realize that as well, and to not assume offense when none may have been intended.

Words written with a concerned tone can be read with a judgmental tone very easily. Does it mean the writer was judgmental? No. Words written to be funny can be read as angry or sarcastic. We need to be careful writers AND careful readers.

I am, right now, cut off from my brother, whom I love with all my heart, because he misunderstood my words and tone over the phone. He thinks I said something I didn't, he thinks my tone was something it wasn't, and he hung up on me and has said he never wants to talk to me again. (I might blow that off, if I didn't already know he keeps record of wrongs forever.)

How much more easily can this happen in a place like this, in print only?

This is why, for instance, when broaching a subject I know someone else has a strong opinion on, I try to go absolutely out of my way to be very clear what I DO mean and what I DO NOT mean. Sometimes I've appealed to the other person to be sure they don't take what I said wrong. I remember bringing up the subject of meat rabbits being stolen by some groups who claim to be rescuing them from bad circumstances. Knowing that Brody is involved in animal rescue and shelter, I addressed Brody at length to make sure she knew I was not talking about all shelters and rescue groups, or even most of them, but a very small number of people; and that I most certainly was not talking about her, and that I have the utmost of respect for her and what she does, since I am well aware that some people need to have their animals removed. I was still tied up in a knot, afraid Brody would misunderstand, but she completely understood. It's not that I feel I have to walk on eggshells around Brody, it's just that I was saying something that she could easily have taken very, very wrong, in a medium that does not lend itself easily to the clarity that tone of voice, facial expression, and body language help bring.

I'm not saying that this kind of precaution needs to be taken with every post we make, only that we need to be particularly careful when we are speaking about a controversial subject, or a subject that someone has very strong feelings on. The rest of the time, we still need to be aware of what we are saying, and we have to be careful as readers not to jump to bad conclusions about someone's meaning.

Miss M,
that was a very well written dissertation and something that needed saying.
I will apologize here and now to everyone who may have taken any of my posts
as a personal attack on anyone or their ways/choices of doings things.
I will admit that I may be a bit stubborn when standing up for something
I believe to be correct but I never stated that my way was the only way.
I believe that there is always more than one way to skin a Cat.
I understand that not everyone can or will believe in what I do,
all I can hope for is to be able to state my opinion and be heard
without anyone getting splintered if they don't agree.
I learn alot here about others choices and hope to be able to share some of what
I have learned through the years that I have worked with rabbits.
I pray that we can all start anew and forget any past infringements
on any others thoughts on any subject whether intentionally or accidentally.
Again I apologize for any misunderstanding.
PEACE Dennis, C.V.R.

Dandee I apologize entirely for any tone any one might have read into my posts - it is never my intention to bully .. believe me! I do feel very passionately about this and can say pretty clearly it's not a point I'm willing to let go .. I apologize if I was not a careful writer ... I have been reading VERY carefully I'd like to assure you all

Dennis I have said NUMEROUS times you are entitled to your opinion - I too have worked for years - decades just like you I suspect- with rabbits

it's the hijacking of the thread that has me most upset - dennis you may want to consider your response at 10:38 - and either edit it or ask for it to be removed - it contributes nothing to the thread or the tone on the board ...

Miss M - thank you for your clarity - it really is hard to offend me honest!! (actually to be fair this thread hasn't offended me apart from some specific word choices - I am quite frustrated though )

so let me reiterate for people who may be doing a search years from now

Spaying/nuetering your rabbit is a reasonable and sensible option if you have fibre/pet animals that you don't want reproducing
there is evidence that female rabbits particularly live longer if "altered" - I'm not actually sure if there are stats for males
a rabbit savy vet can be very quick about the procedure relatively and there is not a significant risk to the animal being knocked out .. surgery is ALWAYS risky and the pros and cons should be wieghed for each animal and each person

Miss M is right. RabbitTalk has been a peaceful, happy place to discuss rabbits and I am sure we all want to keep it that way.

I think it is time to let go of this thread. I don't want to lock it, but I do ask that we just let it rest. We've all had ample opportunity to speak to both the original topic and the subject that came out of it.

Well now. Lots of interesting information in this thread. yup. And quite obviously there are people who feel very strongly about this topic. Everyone that wanted to has now had time to read, reread, think, post, repost, explain, apologize, clear up info, and so forth.

Maggie may have qualms about locking it, but I don't (she's nice, sweet and tolerant...I'm not) If anyone needs a further explanation, or wishes it re-opened, feel free to PM me. Everyone was able to put forth their point of view, so now......may this thread -/-(