Need help with color identification and genetics.

Hi gang. I just had a litter on Sunday. I had bred my harlequin NZ doe to her self black NZ father. This is my first litter with this doe and the buck is owned by the lady I bought the doe from. I got a nice selection of colors but one I was not expecting. I think I have a magpie!







Four of the eight kits have the (ej) as their dominant trait. Three are harlequins like their mother, but the one in the lower right corner appears to be a magpie.

1) I was wondering if you guys would agree with my assessment that the one kit is a magpie?

2) If it is a magpie I have a question about genetics. I always thought magpies were (cchd)_ and (ej)_ . Is there a way a magpie could have the Himalayan (ch) as the dominant gene at the C locus (i.e., (ch)_ and (ej)_ )?

3)Because if I can't have a magpie with (ch)_ and (ej)_ then I have a bit of a conundrum with this litter regarding the C-locus. I have what should be a pointed kit. I know the father has had pointed kits in the past and his C-genotype should be C(ch) (I have enough info to know Cc is not probable). The doe's C-phenotype is C_ and if I had to take a guess the C-genotype would be C(ch) like her father. C(ch) crossed with C(ch) would make sense with this litter as 6/8 would have "C" as their dominant gene (3 blacks and 3 harlis) and 2/8 would have "ch" as their dominant gene (the pointed and the magpie). I don't think I could get this combination if the doe was C(cchd).

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

1) Yes
2) Yes and no, a magpie and carry himi and be ej- cchd ch but if they are ch- then it will wipe out color on the body. They may still have some striping along the ears, feet, and nose but they won't look like a magpie.
3) Are you sure the pointed kits were himi and not frosties/ermines? Frosties would be ee cchd and they can look similar himi's but will have dark eyes rather than pink.

-- Tue May 23, 2017 4:35 pm --

It's also possible the doe inherited a cchd from her dam so then the magpie kit would be cchd ch. It also looks like you have a pink something or other in this litter as well which makes things more interesting. <br /><br /> -- Tue May 23, 2017 4:37 pm -- <br /><br /> If the sire is black any chance he could be a self chin? Cchd ch?

alforddm":3jnkoxun said:

1) Yes
2) Yes and no, a magpie and carry himi and be ej- cchd ch but if they are ch- then it will wipe out color on the body. They may still have some striping along the ears, feet, and nose but they won't look like a magpie.
3) Are you sure the pointed kits were himi and not frosties/ermines? Frosties would be ee cchd and they can look similar himi's but will have dark eyes rather than pink.

-- Tue May 23, 2017 4:35 pm --

It's also possible the doe inherited a cchd from her dam so then the magpie kit would be cchd ch. It also looks like you have a pink something or other in this litter as well which makes things more interesting.

-- Tue May 23, 2017 4:37 pm --

If the sire is black any chance he could be a self chin? Cchd ch?

Click to expand...

As you see it is turning into a conundrum, lol. The magpie and the pink one are throwing everything off. I am going back later this week to pick up some hay from the lady. I can ask some questions.

I've only seen one kit with the himilayan markings in person, it was night in a barn and I didn't examine it closely. Other than that it's the owner's tales of past breedings.

Self chin sounds like a possibility, didn't even think of that. Perhaps as they get older I can examine them more closely and try to piece together genotypes.

Do you happen to know if the buck is Eej or Ee? Cause if the doe got the harlequin from her dam than the buck could be Ee and the "pink" kit maybe a frosty.