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My rabbit web (:

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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#16  Unread postby Ramjet » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:29 pm


Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry wrote:I honestly don't see how any are reserved. Smaller cages and wire are not as bad as painted. To me, your site and operation screams rescue posing as breeder. People will not appreciate false information, you could even be held legally liable if some one pushed it. If is treat my rabbits by your methods, they'd die in less than 24 hrs.

Oh and one more thing, on phone so can't do as great detail as would like until home. Just because they agree don't mean will. Remove the remark about netherlands or put in mix, this is a big no no right up front.


To me it sounded like the House Rabbit Society went for Profit.

I don't want to sound rude but I have a bad habit of being brutally honest .... to me , reading that website and your posts here thus far , I get the idea you jumped in the deep end of the pool right off the bat from never having and caring for rabbits to becoming a pet breeder overnight ... and read information from one source (or more similar sources) as the way things should be .... and that that source wasn't a very good one , more PETA than practical application and an understanding of the animals themselves.


As you are finding out with the current litter , there is a steep learning curve to rabbits. I lost 12 of 14 in my first litter .... all because my nest box was too large (something that sounds so trivial) , the doe decided it was a sofa , suffocating the kits.
Hopefully the feedback you get here from experienced breeders will help you properly care your animals going forward and save you similar catastrophe associated with trail and error or poor information ... don't take our honesty the wrong way.


The lay out of the website is great ....
Hindsight is always 20/20 but looking back its still a bit fuzzy.

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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#17  Unread postby Petlover500 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:36 pm


Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry wrote:I honestly don't see how any are reserved. Smaller cages and wire are not as bad as painted. To me, your site and operation screams rescue posing as breeder. People will not appreciate false information, you could even be held legally liable if some one pushed it. If is treat my rabbits by your methods, they'd die in less than 24 hrs.

Oh and one more thing, on phone so can't do as great detail as would like until home. Just because they agree don't mean will. Remove the remark about netherlands or put in mix, this is a big no no right up front.


What do you mean? Rescue? What?
This rabbit I adopted was prenant and had babies...

And false information? What do I state that is false?

__________ Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:36 pm __________

Ramjet wrote:
Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry wrote:I honestly don't see how any are reserved. Smaller cages and wire are not as bad as painted. To me, your site and operation screams rescue posing as breeder. People will not appreciate false information, you could even be held legally liable if some one pushed it. If is treat my rabbits by your methods, they'd die in less than 24 hrs.

Oh and one more thing, on phone so can't do as great detail as would like until home. Just because they agree don't mean will. Remove the remark about netherlands or put in mix, this is a big no no right up front.


To me it sounded like the House Rabbit Society went for Profit.

I don't want to sound rude but I have a bad habit of being brutally honest .... to me , reading that website and your posts here thus far , I get the idea you jumped in the deep end of the pool right off the bat from never having and caring for rabbits to becoming a pet breeder overnight ... and read information from one source (or more similar sources) as the way things should be .... and that that source wasn't a very good one , more PETA than practical application and an understanding of the animals themselves.


As you are finding out with the current litter , there is a steep learning curve to rabbits. I lost 12 of 14 in my first litter .... all because my nest box was too large (something that sounds so trivial) , the doe decided it was a sofa , suffocating the kits.
Hopefully the feedback you get here from experienced breeders will help you properly care your animals going forward and save you similar catastrophe associated with trail and error or poor information ... don't take our honesty the wrong way.


The lay out of the website is great ....


How am I not properly caring for my rabbits?
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#18  Unread postby Zass » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:08 pm


I think the criticism might be a bit harsh here.

She sounds like a young person who is trying to do her very best to ensure the first (accidental!) babies she has had are going on to what she feels would be the best homes for them, and she has the right to do so.

It does look like much of her information was taken from house rabbit society informed webpages.

I do see some very dedicated effort, and someone who has the potential to become be a very good breeder.

Experience will come with time.

It might be that she eventually has a hard time placing bunnies with such requirements, and that's OK. Everyone who has sold pets has experienced some degree of difficulty with the pet market at one point or another, right?

I started with the idea that solid floored pens or even soil would be best for my rabbits too.
Cocci and mastitis taught me that humidity+feces+a solid surface could be a disaster, but not everyone who attempts it fails as miserably as I did. :|

I still have 2x4 foot cages, and I know Marinea has even larger ones. There is nothing wrong with that.

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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#19  Unread postby Petlover500 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:11 pm


Thank you, Zazz (:
But I only listed one of HRS' sources- how to deal with aggression (:

I am not afraid to admit that I am new to breeding rabbits, because that is the truth.
I said I was open to suggestions and such, and I do appreciate you all trying to help me out. I am doing the best I can to care for my buns, as they all mean a lot to me. I think I am doing a pretty fair job so far :)
If you do want to point out something that is not correct, please do so (with some explaining of what you consider right) because I really do strive to become a better rabbit owner and breeder :)
If this topic creates too much trouble, I am happy to remove the link.
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Last edited by Petlover500 on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#20  Unread postby Ramjet » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:28 pm


I always come off as harsh .... even if I try not to. :wr_brick:
Hindsight is always 20/20 but looking back its still a bit fuzzy.

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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#21  Unread postby Petlover500 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:33 pm


Its ok (: Everyone has a right to their own opinion :wr_dance5: :wr_dance6: :wr_dance1:
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#22  Unread postby ladysown » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:33 pm


Not all that you are doing is horrible. It isn't. So please don't take that from my earlier comments.

I personally get turned off when people make a list of requirements that sound like "do it my way or else". I totally get your heart. You have found what you think is the best way to raise rabbits and want to ensure that your babies are raised in a way that for you makes the most sense.

My struggle is that you don't seem to be leaving room for people who can care well for your bunnies but in a manner differently than what you might personally prefer.

For instance
The Need to have a salad two-three times per week. It's fun for your bunnies indeed BUT not really necessary and indeed for some rabbits can contribute to GI stasis. :)

You state on your website you will be breeding netherland dwarf rabbits and yet throughout your site you have pictures of other rabbits that are obviously NOT netherland dwarf so it creates some confusion (and to some it might seem as though you are lying)... in fact my first impression of your website was... HUH? Breeding netherland dwarf rabbits and yet.. what in the world are THOSE rabbits they aren't netherland dwarf (... so me.. who has seen lots of rabbitry websites was confused...what might the average pet person be thinking?)

Your site is nicely laid out and your heart/love for your bunnies is very obvious (I believe I said something similar). Keep up that good work.

But I would recommend that you make it really clear that though your intention is to breed netherland dwarfs that right now you are trying to find excellent homes for some rabbits of unknown heritage homes. :)

Make sense?

JUST TRYING to be helpful (take or leave what I say as you will). :)
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#23  Unread postby Prisma » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:36 pm


Will explain more once on pc, but everything I said was matter of fact, nothing bad if was taken otherwise sorry.

On the first page have Netherland as breed but here admitted adopt isn't from or is purebred.
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#24  Unread postby Petlover500 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:51 pm


ladysown wrote:Not all that you are doing is horrible. It isn't. So please don't take that from my earlier comments.

I personally get turned off when people make a list of requirements that sound like "do it my way or else". I totally get your heart. You have found what you think is the best way to raise rabbits and want to ensure that your babies are raised in a way that for you makes the most sense.

My struggle is that you don't seem to be leaving room for people who can care well for your bunnies but in a manner differently than what you might personally prefer.

For instance
The Need to have a salad two-three times per week. It's fun for your bunnies indeed BUT not really necessary and indeed for some rabbits can contribute to GI stasis. :)


You state on your website you will be breeding netherland dwarf rabbits and yet throughout your site you have pictures of other rabbits that are obviously NOT netherland dwarf so it creates some confusion (and to some it might seem as though you are lying)... in fact my first impression of your website was... HUH? Breeding netherland dwarf rabbits and yet.. what in the world are THOSE rabbits they aren't netherland dwarf (... so me.. who has seen lots of rabbitry websites was confused...what might the average pet person be thinking?)

Your site is nicely laid out and your heart/love for your bunnies is very obvious (I believe I said something similar). Keep up that good work.

But I would recommend that you make it really clear that though your intention is to breed netherland dwarfs that right now you are trying to find excellent homes for some rabbits of unknown heritage homes. :)

Make sense?

JUST TRYING to be helpful (take or leave what I say as you will). :)


I'm not saying that they need a salad, that was just a suggestion (:

I get what you are saying, and you are right. It is a little confusing I guess, but in a few months when my ND has kits everything should be cleared up :)

Thank you, that really means a lot to me :) :lilbunny:

Ok, I will try to make that a bit more clear. Thanks!

__________ Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:51 pm __________

Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry wrote:Will explain more once on pc, but everything I said was matter of fact, nothing bad if was taken otherwise sorry.

On the first page have Netherland as breed but here admitted adopt isn't from or is purebred.

I do have a netherland dwarf and will be breeding her this winter. The kits I have right now though, are not netherland dwarfs and I didn't claim that they were on my site (:
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#25  Unread postby ladysown » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:53 pm


you state: It is also recommended that you give your rabbit a “salad” at least 2-3 times a week. This salad should compose of 2 cups of mainly leafy veggies, such as green or red leaf lettuce. (NO iceberg lettuce. This can cause diarrhea and has no source of protein.)

To sum it all up, here is a checklist of things that you need:

- A proper sized and weather protected hutch/cage
- Correct food pellets
- A working water bottle and ceramic food dish
- A rabbit-safe toy or two
- A litter box (optional)
- Timothy or grass hay
- A slicker brush (optional)
- Rabbit-safe nail clippers
- A crate/carrier (for transportation and hot days)
- A tarp to wrap around your rabbit's cage
- A house for your rabbit to lay down in and jump up on inside their cage
- A pen for your rabbit to play outside in (optioinal but recommended)
- A rabbit-safe family/owner
- Lots of time for your rabbit
- A patient, loving, attitude
- $$ for weekly vegetables
- Extra $$ for when you need to buy new toys, new food, etc.
- Extra $$ just in case your rabbit needs to go to the vet


I LIKE that you put a list up of needed items for having a rabbit. it's more extensive I think then it needs to be.

For instance:
If I were to make a list of needed supplies it would be "housing, fresh good quality pellets and water daily".
Optional "hay every other day, grains once a week, and green veggies as able...NO cabbage family plants"

helpful items : nail clippers
optional helpful items: Slicker brush. You really DON"T need one because slightly damp hands will remove TONS of rabbit fur and give you rabbit a good time of being handled as well. :)

OPTIONAL: rabbit toys. Seriously.. rabbits can and do find their own stuff to play with and I tell people, toss a toilet paper roll on the floor and just watch them have fun or put out a big tub of dirt and see what happens (perhaps NOT doing that on carpet). :)

a page listing all these recommendations makes it seem less like a recommendation and more like a "make sure you have all this stuff".

WHICH IS GREAT in and of itself. Too many people buy the rabbit then go looking for stuff for it in a somewhat panicky way I LOVE that you strongly encourage people to be prepared.

BUT at the same time... for those who do things differently... well..... it's a struggle to find that balance right?

You have indeed given me food for thought for my own website and I appreciate that. :)
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#26  Unread postby Marinea » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:36 pm


Petlover, when you've been here for a while, you will see that each of us raises our rabbits in our own way. We have all learned things that work for us, and we share our experiences with each other in an attempt to help others avoid some of the growing pains we have had along the way.

I looked over your site, and I believe a lot of the tough feedback is due to the "house rabbit" attitudes. Many of us have had dealings with "house rabbit" people, and the major complaint seems to be the "this is the ONLY way to do X" mentality. They completely discount successes had by others doing things completely opposite of their way.

I have raised rabbits for years, and I would fail your checklist in almost every category. The one big issue I won't let go without a comment is the salad- if someone starts feeding that out of the blue to a bun, they could easily end up losing it to diarrhea or bloat.
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#27  Unread postby Petlover500 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:24 pm


I am not saying my way is the only way. I am just trying to ensure that my kits get into great homes. I do not approve of 24in x 24in cages, or people that let their rabbits live in dirty environments.
And I am not saying that you guys do this, I am just saying I have seen it before.
I don't want my rabbits to go for meat, or to be bought out of a "ooh I think I will decide to get a rabbit today" rush. I want my rabbits to get into the best homes possible, and many people I know house and care for their rabbits the way I do.
But again, I'm not saying it's wrong. Many years ago when I got my first pet rabbit, he lived in a "small" 1ft x 2 ft cage. He didn't seem unhappy, but he didnt seem extreemly happy either. I know he could have thrived much more in a larger cage.
Now a days, I house each breeding rabbit in a 2 x 4 space. And my pet rabbit in a 2 story, each floor 2 x 4. (My breeding rabbits will get more space soon. I am ordering a new hutch.)
I am completley aware that a small rabbit can live in a mesh cage that is 24in x 24in, and be fine. But I want my rabbits to be more than fine, I want them to love their life.
Now, I know many of you don't agree with me. Thats ok!! I don't expect you to. We all have our own ways. But some people wanting a rabbit from me haven't been afraid to meet my requirements. :)
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#28  Unread postby Prisma » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:13 am


To assume that rabbits that live in 2x2 cages do not love their life and are not as happy as yours is just wrong. And again, people will say whatever they think you will want to hear if they really want some thing bad enough. I do not know how old you are but no one hear is trying to say your way is completely wrong or your rabbits are not cared for, however by the wording and way you are writing it seems as if that's the only way you'll accept is OK even though we can accept your way as being OK as well.

__________ Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:13 am __________

From site: We offer sweet and well-tamed Netherland Dwarf rabbits (right now all we have are what are pictured) that could be perfect for you and your family.

Even with the disclaimer, you still have this posted. It is misleading and incorrect. When some one has this posted, it reads to the person reading it that you have Netherland Dwarfs and are breeding them, that what you have pictured are Netherland Dwarf rabbits and not that they are mixes etc. Most people are going to look at the cute pictures, well put together page, and not read the rest of the text after the first sentence or 2.

From site:
DND is a newly started rabbitry
that is located in Richland, Washington. We breed as a hobby, and will soon be producing fully pedigreed, pet quality, and show quality
Netherland Dwarf rabbits!

If you are seroius about showing, you are going to have to look into things more seriously. I know of not a single person that would look at your site and be comfortable selling show stock to you. You have some great breeders in that area, but they are breeders and will not want their hard work being fed or cared for the way you have as it would kill them. You cannot just take a rabbit and just give it the diet you are feeding yours out of the blue, I'm not saying yours is wrong, just the way it is stated is. If there is no warning given to others that they need to change diet slowly you can have a lot of sick rabbits or dead rabbits quickly from GI upset.

Other from site:
The entire care section and requirements is worded to be this way or no way, there is no mention that is possible to keep otherwise or that differences could be understood but the kits you raise need to be kept this way as a sudden change could cause illness or death.

Wire does not cause problems, POOR breeding and care do. Feet that are not well furred or kept in filthy conditions end up with problems. Bones that are not thick and are thin cause problems (genetics). You need to do more research than just HSUS and PET sites.

Diet; hay cannot keep the average rabbit in good shape they will become super thin on a small number of pellets UNLESS they were bred and brought up on it. I don't know of any show lines that are done that way, not saying there's not just not any of the better ranking breeders I know.

From site:
In the winter time, if temperatures reach 30 degrees F or below, a tarp should be wrapped around your rabbit’s cage so that the heat your rabbit produces will be conserved in its cage. If you do not cover your rabbit’s cage, and help it conserve its warmth, your rabbit may freeze to death.

Rabbits will not freeze to death at those tempatures. A rabbit that is poor condition may have issues or has been bred away from being cold tolerant. A tarp wrapped around cutting off air flow and making the cage air tight will cause more problems, high amonia can damage lungs and cause terminal issues.

From site:
you will have to clean your rabbit’s cage every day

Drop pans make this not a must, keeping clean is aways a big thing but to require every day can actually cause issues with the cage and build up of cleaners used can also be a problem if not extremely careful.

From site:
You will have to show me the conditions your rabbit will live in through pictures or a video you provide me through email or text message. If I disprove of your current conditions, I have the right to not sell you one of the baby rabbits until, if you wish to, refurbish your conditions.

While I am all for good conditions, is really intruding into people's privacy a must? If you don't trust some one enough to not require pictures/video, you don't need to sell to them in the first place. Its also quite easy to set some thing up and then take it down. There are no guarantees with new owners, once a rabbit leaves your hands...they belong to them.

On site: Safe vs Unsafe foods

There are several "safe" ones that are KNOWN to cause GI issues in some rabbits, yet there is no warning. Any thing like broccoli, fennel, asparagus, and some others can be trouble some. Some can even cause issues with bred rabbits (raspberry, mint, other herbs) have some very specific uses from pain medication to labor induction and blood thinning.

Here are some resources that would be helpful and are more people friendly. They are not AR or HRS based nor pet biased. PetMD is one of the biggest HS/rescue backed sites I know of. If you go to many other breeder forums or groups on FB for that matter, its going to be a lot different and no were near as nicely said or put. Every one here is really trying to be nice and put things in a nice way, even though there doesn't seem to be a better way than bluntly for me as I've put it. Because there's been a rising problem with AR/rescues and anti-breeders, many will just take what is as face value and consider some one that is not serious about looking into showing. Its great that you want to make sure they have good homes and want to try to insure that.

The Nature Trail; tons of information from breeding to showing and genetics: http://www.thenaturetrail.com/

American Rabbit Breeders Association; information on showing (including membership forms and SOP purchasing info) and breeders throughout the US as well as links to accepted breed clubs: https://www.arba.net/


Has some useful information on sore hocks; some things I don't agree with but still good to look at of course: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/rabbit-feet.html

Three Little Ladies Rabbitry; breeder with some good articles and different views: http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.com/sorehocks.php
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#29  Unread postby fhjmom » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:08 am


You are not offering rabbits for adoption, you are a breeder selling mixed breed rabbits. You are not currently offering any Netherland Dwarfs for sale, so your rabbitry name and references to ND make this unclear and very misleading. The fact you state in one spot that the rabbits you currently have are mixed does not absolve you of the responsibility for the misleading nature of the rest of your site. You keep saying things listed are your "recommendations", yet the wording on your site says they are required to buy (yes, buy, not adopt) one of your rabbits. If you want to be successful selling and showing purebred Netherland Dwarfs, you would do better following the recommendations from those that are successful breeding winners and show themselves, not pet sites! And bigger cafes are not always better. We have a buck that paces non-stop in a larger cage; he feels more secure and is happier in his 18x24 cage. I also disagree with solid floors being better, as it causes the rabbit to have to live sitting in their own waste. Others have pointed out the issues with your diet recommendations so I'll just say "ditto".

What I see from your site is someone with very little experience whose heart is in the right place but your gut feelings (following pet site advice) do not match well-researched successful rabbit husbandry practices. If you want to go the pet route and raise rabbits for the pet market, that's fine just be honest about what you are selling - mixed pets, not show-quality Netherlands.
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Re: My rabbit web (:

Post Number:#30  Unread postby Tiny Buns » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:27 pm


Petlover500 wrote:If any of my rabbits are aggressive, I correct it immediately.
None of my kits have shown any signs of aggression yet, and are getting handled daily.
They really do love to be held and pet, lol!


I would be curious to know how you 'immediately correct aggressive behavior' in a rabbit? Sadly, I just had to cull a doe I've hand raised since she was 5 weeks (after 4 weeks of firm handling and behavior modification attempts) because she bit me so deeply I needed stitches. She loved, just loved being cuddled as a kit and would be content to be carried around for hours. She hit puberty and changed into frankenb*tch. And pregnancy turned her into an unpredictable viper. In this case hormones did is no favours and changed my sweet cuddly kit into a rattlesnake.

I'd be curious to know your methods vs the level of aggression you're treating if it might save a necessary cull later on.

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