ME update

First I want to thank Chinbunny for her/his thoughtful advice and quick responses. As many of you know, teh last week has been awful. I write this in hoping many of you have a place to turn when this hits---it is fast, devastating and very hard to stop. Today, I started mylocon drops to ease gas---this does seem to work. I also forcefed pureed pumpkin to those not eating; water too. Movement and general activity has improved. While early, I am optomistic and will give you daily updates.

I put down two kits tonight as Whitey is not going to make it and I have three young litters. I have lost 4 of T2's surviving 10 and three of Cali's 13. This is a large litter that I have combined in hopes that Cali is indeed recovering adn can feed 1/x day. I will try to get T3 to provide a lift to them, but she has 11...
Whitey's litter is three weeks adn mobile, self feeding and frankly for the past 5 days, fine without her milk. I am considering them weaned at this point.

Ms Tenino's litter of 9 is two weeks, they are now on their own. I cannot spare a doe to suckle them and they are frankly not of size for their age. They are eating hay, raspberry and tonight went to the feeder and began eating. This will be a lesson in how a young litter can respond. I will weigh them tomm and track progress for all our benefit. None that survice will be saved for breeding due to their poor poor<br /><br />__________ Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:55 pm __________<br /><br />their poor start.

I know it's been a tough time, CH.

Ms Tenino's 2 week old litter may have a better chance if they get some milk. If they are already nibbling, they may take milk from a crock. Mixing in baby cereal (if they still make the unflavoured Gerber or Pablum types) or rolled oats may help. The only thing about doing this is that you MUST remove anything uneaten before it has a chance to go sour. Goat's milk would be better than cow's milk.

If you can't get fresh goat's milk from a farm, many grocery stores are starting to carry goats milk in the dairy section, and canned in the ...well, I've found it in with the Mexican section, the dry milk section, and baking (along with condensed milk, etc.)

Update: Cali is about and eating---a relief. However, Whitey one of our foundation does passed away... I do not know her age, but she came with a litter last year so I suspect she was over two years.

What about raw cows milk? we have this on hand.

I would think that raw whole cow's milk would be fine. I'd try it, but watch to see how they handle it. Generally speaking, goat's milk is considered easier to digest.

I will try the raw cows milk, we buy it fresh weekly.

They are nibbling food and eating raspberry too.

=/ I've been told that cow's milk is one of the worst things you can use as a replacer.

then again, there's no solid formula that's been made yet, so...

The raw milk went over fine FWIW.

I did put down three juniors this am as they were dehydrated, not eating or drinking and just going to make the rest worse.

I do not this this is a virus, but more of a "stress induced condition". It travels amoung them as they sense stress in others. I think spacing, noise level etc is a critical issue.

essentially, once a rabbit slows its water intake, food consumption etc. it backs up and becomes impacted; its downhill from there. The leaking is a sign of impaction and the key seems to be easing the bloating, hydration and getting the gut moving with hay etc.
If this occurs, you may save the animal.


Things I used: mylocon drops for gas/bloating, pureed pumpkin, raw milk, hay, black and raspberry.

Hope this helps,
CH

At two-three weeks, their water intake isn't very high. They'll be getting their liquids through the milk. I've never seen any of my babies discover the water bottle until day 20-25.

Cow's milk is not going to be digestable.

I also don't agree with them being fed suplements other than a formula, hay, and water. Pumpkin at this age is likely to further upset their stomachs.

CH, are you watching their poops to make sure they are normal? If the cow's milk/pumpkin etc. is going to cause problems, diarrhea or constipation are likely to be the first signs. I'd really try to get some goat's milk if you can. Most good supermarkets carry it these days.

This is a tricky situation due to the young age of the kits. I'd go with the milk/oatmeal, grass hay and raspberry greens. If you feed pellets, you may want to make them available too. I find that young kits "grow into" the foods that are available, provided those foods are there all along, even before they are of an age to be interested. This way you avoid the "pig out" tendency that can occur with adding a new food at weaning time. I know this litter is different in that they are on their own far younger than is desirable, but the same principles apply.

I didn't feed the little ones anything but rabbit milk; this was for the 6 week+ rabbits.

The kits and babies are being nursed; T2's litter is being nursed by another doe and allowed to eat raspberry, hay and oats.

All have pellets.

Maggie, it is tricky. I put down three more juniors this am as they were not improving and the rest were. Tough choices have to be made. the combined litters of week olds is down to about 8 from 20. I am waiting to see how my two kindlings go.

I'm sorry... I'm getting confused. I was under the impression you were feeding raw cow's milk to Ms. Tenino's two-week-old litter. They were the ones I was referring to in my last post.

There are recipes for rabbit formulas available. Maybe someone who has used one successfully would contribute their recipe.

I am confused, too, now.

In any sense, I posted one of the best formulas available on your other post.

CH - and anyone else following this thread - please see the following topic regarding rabbits and cow's milk. It is enough to convince me that using cow's milk is a bad idea, as Anntann and Shaded Night have already said. I fully retract my suggestion that cow's milk might be okay.

important-information-and-rabbits-and-cow-s-milk-t943.html

Please get them some goat's milk!

Hello all!
Well I only fed the raw milk for one night. Cali is eating again--although now she is spoiled adn wants to be hand fed! However, the better news is that her poops are starting to firm up and look more normal. She is really thin and unfortunately she has to nurse her litter daily. I have two other does due, depending on litter size, they may get fosters.

Bubble had 12 today, so she cannot take more. Curly and our pure creme are on the clock... will be interesting. overall, the juniors are better; eating and drinking and more normal activity. they were moved to another cage apart from the main herd. I am thinking that space is more important than we realize.

Either way, I will be taking a bunch to the farm next week; they will be apart from the main farm herd for the summer to see how they do.

__________ Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:40 pm __________

Update: one more kit lost from a litter last week. Cali continues to improve---her coat is MUCH better, she continues to eat and increase water intake. the juniors seem better too; I think we are seeing improvement in all. Most of them will become meat buns; I don't see the value in keeping them for breeding after the trauma.

Will update monday.<br /><br />__________ Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:41 pm __________<br /><br />I should add that Miss Tenino's litter in on oats, pellets and greens at three weeks. They are nursed one time a day as well. They will never be worthy of breeding, but will likley grow out in due course

Why do you think they won't be "worthy" of breeding? Just because they're orphan, doesn't mean they won't mature fully. One of my best does was the runt of the litter and took a month extra to reach full weight.

and sometimes those ones that survive a difficult time are exactly the ones that you want to have in your herd. It shows their plain resiliency and determination to fight through. Some rabbits...they get sick, they get frightened...eh,... they die. Other rabbits get sick/frightened/whatever and they fight til the bitter end. Me... I want those fighters. You can always breed size, weight, and such like, you can't always breed that inborn resilience.

well, I was afraid they would be "weaker" stock. If you think it worth a chance, I am more than willing to let them have a go at maturity

What would you do with a doe that survived this ordeal?

if you were sure that something else caused the illness (bad feed, mould, whatever) I owuld let the doe recover well and keep her in business ... I agree that resilence can be awfully hard to find in rabbits

I am thinking she will need the rest of the summer to recover; it will be an interesting trial to witness.

Currently she is expanding her feeding, water intake and pellet consumption. All good signs