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Line breeding questions

Discussions and questions about how best to keep your breeding program running smoothly.
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Line breeding questions

Post Number:#1  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:34 pm


So my herd is mostly all related in one way or another. All are also pedigreed. So my question is since I have a waiting list that is getting impatient, what kind of line breeding crosses do y'all think would be alright. I have four in my stock right now and will do my best to explain their relation. Two bucks, and one doe are half siblings through the sire. One buck, and one doe are mother and son. The two does are Aunt and Niece. One doe and one buck are cousins as well as half siblings. The third of the half siblings has no relation to one doe. I'm planning on expanding my herd when I can but this is what I have. I can try to draw a family tree if it would help
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Re: Line breeding questions

Post Number:#2  Unread postby hotzcatz » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:16 pm


I use a pedigree program called 'Kintraks' to keep track of this sort of thing because I'm also working with limited genetics. It has an 'inbreeding' tab at the top where you can put in a doe and a buck and it will calculate the level of inbred if you were to mate the two. It will also keep track of a whole lot of other things as well as print out pedigrees.

If you're using an older computer, the program is free. If you're running Linex, it's free. If you've got less than 100 animals in your database, it's free. When you actually get around to paying for it, it's not expensive, somewhere less than $20, I think. And all upgrades after that are free. [url]https://www.kintraks.com/downloads.htm[/url]

Prior to 2009, I had a mother/son that had been sold to me as a 'breeding pair'. Then three bucks and three does were brought in from the mainland and with this program, I've been able to keep them from being inbred. The only other genetic import has been one doe bred to an outside buck and one of the original three bucks and his offspring were culled due to some recessive genes he had. None of this would have been possible without Kintraks.

So, if it were me, I'd download the program and put the pedigrees of your rabbits into it and use the 'inbreeding' button. Otherwise, you could start with breeding the ones who aren't related to the doe if the gender is right for that to work.
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Re: Line breeding questions

Post Number:#3  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:20 pm


hotzcatz wrote:I use a pedigree program called 'Kintraks' to keep track of this sort of thing because I'm also working with limited genetics. It has an 'inbreeding' tab at the top where you can put in a doe and a buck and it will calculate the level of inbred if you were to mate the two. It will also keep track of a whole lot of other things as well as print out pedigrees.

If you're using an older computer, the program is free. If you're running Linex, it's free. If you've got less than 100 animals in your database, it's free. When you actually get around to paying for it, it's not expensive, somewhere less than $20, I think. And all upgrades after that are free. [url]https://www.kintraks.com/downloads.htm[/url]
Prior to 2009, I had a mother/son that had been sold to me as a 'breeding pair'. Then three bucks and three does were brought in from the mainland and with this program, I've been able to keep them from being inbred. The only other genetic import has been one doe bred to an outside buck and one of the original three bucks and his offspring were culled due to some recessive genes he had. None of this would have been possible without Kintraks.

So, if it were me, I'd download the program and put the pedigrees of your rabbits into it and use the 'inbreeding' button. Otherwise, you could start with breeding the ones who aren't related to the doe if the gender is right for that to work.

Thanks, I'll look into it when I get the chance.

Sorry for sloppy hand writing. This is my "family tree" of my rabbits. I used the rabbits' common names. My rabbits are circled with gender written beside them. Currently Vale is pregnant by Griffin once more, then she will be paired with Odin after this litter
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Re: Line breeding questions

Post Number:#4  Unread postby MeadowView » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:35 pm


I wouldn't worry too much about it. Your rabbits are all far enough removed that it shouldn't be an issue. The most important thing to keep in mind with linebreeding is to cull repeating faults. If certain faults go unchecked in heavy linebreeding programs and go on for generations, they can become extremely hard to correct. You should practically look at your first few litters from related crosses under a microscope to try to understand what your foundation stock throws.

The only breeding that is too close imo is full sibling crosses. Even then, the babies can be (and usually are) happy and healthy, but won't show much variance between kits. We had an accidental sibling litter once, and the kits were all practically clones of each other.

If you really love the type on Griffin, Nova and Midas/Odin should throw kits that emulate him. His best features can show up more pronounced, but so can his faults. If you don't know what Griffin looks like, well, you're sort of playing with fire here. Also, like, you're just starting out. It's okay to play with those genetics a little and see what happens.

As an example, I breed a buck with heavy bone and dark color and a doe with fine bone and light color. Their babies are nice, but I'd like to see some finer bone on them, so I breed one of the bucks from the litter back to his dam. Their litter has fine bone but the depth of their color suffers. Lather, rinse, repeat.

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Re: Line breeding questions

Post Number:#5  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:45 am


I suppose I'm pretty lucky that I am pretty good friends with my stock's breeder. I have met/seen Griffin, Calypso, and Phoenix multiple times. Griffin is a bit big, and could use a few more spots, but is otherwise really nice. Phoenix is a bit too heavy on stray spots, and Griffin helps balance the spots in the kits. Calypso is a bit light, but has a good balance of spots. Her and Griffin threw my potential show bunny if I can find a show I can actually get her to on my schedule. Here is my stock, and what I see with them (in order from top to bottom, 2 pictures of each rabbit, most still had winter coat in their pictures and look over weight because of it):

Vale, a bit heavy set, very few spots

Nova, finer set like her mother, extremely well spotted, potential show bunny

Midas, originally thought to be a charlie but actually has a very faint cluster of spots on his right hip, and a bit heavy set like his parents

Odin, too young to tell his body structure, but looking like he'll come out finer set. Heavily spotted like his mother

-- Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:37 am --

Future planned breeding are Vale and Odin to see if spots will balance. I was thinking also breeding Nova to Midas to see how spotting goes and see if it'll balance the body structures.
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