Register

Info about Pan American Vet Labs' Vaccine for Pasteurella

Diagnosing and treating rabbit ailments. *Caution! These threads may contain graphic content.*
5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
Posts: 4055
Joined: March 5, 2011
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 185 in 172 posts
BunnyBucks: 22,540.00

P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#1  Unread postby Secuono » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:15 pm


Ok, so I found a FB group about the P vaccine and the first thing I find out is rabbits have bloody noses and particles coming out as well.
How on Earth is that even remotely ok? No one is properly testing, researching and publishing information. At least not from what I am finding and reading.

=/
Some are blaming the heat, but the guy selling the vaccine even stated he had rabbits show up with runny/bloody noses....

Can someone expand on this stuff?

Site Supporter
3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 562
Joined: April 8, 2013
Location: Texas
United States of America Male
Thanks: 160
Thanked: 65 in 51 posts
BunnyBucks: 3,072.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#2  Unread postby TMTex » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:22 pm


I'd expected a vaccine to cause an immune response. The stronger the immune system, the stronger the response. I'd say that those bunnies that got the particles and bloody noses probably have exceptionally strong immune systems.

I'm going to vaccinate my inside pet rabbit and secondary buck first. There might be other experimental rabbits to choose from as well, but these will be my testbed. If all goes well, I'll vaccinate my "evil" doe next, after she weans her kits.

I'm very hopeful about the vaccine. My sweet cali doe sneezed once last week and I almost panicked. Turns out that she likes to sniff alfalfa, but it scared me for her.
Steeplechase Rabbits

4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership
Posts: 678
Joined: May 30, 2012
Location: NJ
Thanks: 36
Thanked: 54 in 52 posts
BunnyBucks: 3,440.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#3  Unread postby LauraNJ » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:21 pm


The ones having bloody noses were also having heat stress from what I read.

Dr Glass also said that some rabbits may have a stronger immune response. They can not catch P from the vaccine, it is a dead vaccine. It is just some rabbits having a very strong immune response to it.

THink of it like if you get a tetnus shot and having a slight non dangerous side effect like (these are actual side effects of a tetnus shot)abdominal cramps, severe headache, nausea, dizziness, muscle aches. None of those side effects mean you have rabies or are going to begin frothing at the mouth. It is your body's immune response to the vaccine. Within a few days the side effects go away.

Dr Glass has been working on the vaccine for 5 years. It hasn't been released as quickly as it appears. There was testing and it passed through USDA approval.

I am going to give it to our newest rabbits from a closed rabbitry. Closed rabbitrys always make me slightly suspicious as I can not see conditions, even from a distance away or hear sneezing or have any idea if the rabbitry is clean, etc.

So, the new ones will get vaccinated first and then remain in quarantine for a couple months, followed by my mini rex bucks and kits that are 7 and 8 weeks. After, I will vaccinate the nursing does.

The beverens I am undecided on when. They seem slightly more fragile and I have 3 litters due in a week so I may wait a few weeks to vaccinate them or a month so the mini rexes will be one month ahead.

Site Admin
7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 15747
Joined: December 16, 2009
Location: South Eastern Ontario
Canada Female
Thanks: 612
Thanked: 2118 in 1638 posts
BunnyBucks: 55,613.00

BunnyVac - Information about Pan American Vet Labs' Vaccine

Post Number:#4  Unread postby MaggieJ » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:36 pm


Bob Glass of Pan American Veterinary Laboratories has requested permission to post information about BunnyVac, a new vaccine for Pasteurella in rabbits. This will afford our members the opportunity to ask the originator of the product any questions they may have instead of relying solely on secondary sources.

Since Pasteurella is a concern for everyone with rabbits, it seems appropriate to learn all we can about the possibilities of this new product and to encourage dialogue that will help us to make informed decisions about its possible use.

Please keep the discussion calm and courteous.

We wish to make it clear to our members and guests that RabbitTalk neither endorses nor opposes use of this product.

MY APOLOGIES! In an attempt to merge the several threads on this topic, I inadvertently deleted them. As a Techno-Peasant, I should know better than to try that kind of thing.

PLEASE could we confine the discussion of this vaccine to this thread, so that the it is all in one place for easier reference.

3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
Posts: 98
Joined: April 15, 2013
Location: Big island, Hawaii
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 3 in 3 posts
BunnyBucks: 510.00

Re: BunnyVac - Information about Pan American Vet Labs' Vaccine

Post Number:#5  Unread postby annie » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:44 pm


Awesome I want to give the vaccine a try, I just started with rabbits a few months ago but I have had already had to cull a sneezing/snotty rabbit.

3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
Posts: 8
Joined: June 13, 2013
Location: Texas
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 14 in 6 posts
BunnyBucks: 47.00

USDA licensed Pasteurella Vaccine

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Bob Glass » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:32 pm


This discussion is to provide information and answer questions for BunnyVac The product is a killed Pasteurella multocida suspension which USDA has determined is effective in providing protection against Pasteurella infection in rabbits. This product is commercially available through Pan American Vet Labs. If interested in purchasing please contact Bob Glass at bglass@pavlab.com or tele 800 856 9655. I will try to place information here for you review, not sure how to do that.

BunnyVac Clinical Trial Summary.docx
Summary of Efficacy Study supporting USDA submission
(122.97 KiB) Downloaded 99 times


BunnyVac informtiton .docx
(951.9 KiB) Downloaded 79 times

The following user would like to thank Bob Glass for this post
TMTex

3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
Posts: 8
Joined: June 13, 2013
Location: Texas
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 14 in 6 posts
BunnyBucks: 47.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#7  Unread postby Bob Glass » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:51 pm


I've posted (I think) the clinical trial summary for this product on a topic titled USDA licensed Pasteurella vaccine. We've shipped almost 8000 doses in 6 weeks and have had the following issues reported:
1) injection site "knots" in +/- 50 animals, most of these have resolved without incidence in 5-7 days, some are resolving more slowly 10 days +, and some =/-15 have ruptured and spilled a small bout of apparently sterile material which appears to be decomposed white blood cells. These ruptured lesions appear to be healing 2) appearance of snot in some animals that were either known to be infected or suspected of being infected prior to vaccination. We have had many more reports of infected/symptomatic animals whose symptoms have diminished or resolved after vaccination. We have not done any studies to determine the effect (good or bad) on infected animals.
3) a few animals have had very low level and short term clear nasal drainage for 24-48 hours after vaccination. We think these cases are immune reaction to the vaccine and are confident that they are not indicative of infection.

The animal that had a bloody nose appears to have been suffering from overheating and the blooding stopped upon cooling the animal. It appears this issue was not related to the vaccine and we have not had other reports of this issue.

It is my belief that this vaccine can be a useful tool in combating Pasteurella infection, but each breeder/producer should do his own research and decide if this is a tool that will provide benefit in their operation. I am availalble to answer questions.

The following user would like to thank Bob Glass for this post
Bigrig, FajerFarm, Zass

Site Supporter
4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 1812
Joined: February 18, 2013
Location: Big Island of Hawaii
United States of America Female
Thanks: 48
Thanked: 153 in 130 posts
BunnyBucks: 10,358.00

Re: USDA licensed Pasteurella Vaccine

Post Number:#8  Unread postby dayna » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:02 pm


I'm on my phone so I cannot d/l the information. I do have one question though.

There are many strains of Pasterurella correct? What strains does this vaccine cover? Is there a way to find out what strains are in your area?

I'm in Hawaii, many of the diseases I deal with in animals and people are MUCH different than the mainland.

6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership
Posts: 1438
Joined: December 20, 2010
Location: Alaska
Thanks: 6
Thanked: 62 in 52 posts
BunnyBucks: 7,430.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#9  Unread postby Jack » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:22 pm


FRANKLY
at this point, if the vaccine killed 10% but gave me a P free heard, I'd SMILE at the losses
secondly, come on folks, this is an experimental vaccine, and different lines will react differently, there are quite a few breeders who have taken the 'we won't get rid of it, so we breed rabbits that are resistant' line.

NON genetically controlled, experimental lines is EXACTLY what Dr. Glass is looking at how they will react.
And having seen bad reactions in my previous life (army medic) these reported ones are rather mild

NOW, what I would be interested in, is if Dr. Glass could get the support to do comparative immune assays on confirmed infected, suspected, and non infected and their responses (and there really is only 2 categories here, but you don't know about the suspected ones till you test or necropsy)
Thrianta Breeder extraordinaire,
well not really, but trying damn hard.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tundra-Treasures-Rabbitry/142934279087620

3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
Posts: 8
Joined: June 13, 2013
Location: Texas
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 14 in 6 posts
BunnyBucks: 47.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#10  Unread postby Bob Glass » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:32 pm


The vaccine uses a single strain of Pasteurella that is from the group of Pasteurella strains that cause primarily respiratory infections. The vaccine contains whole killed Pasteurella. this is important because the cell wall proteins of most of the strains of Pasteurella are essentially the same. The cell surface lipopolysaccharides are more variable and these are what make each strain unique. Our goal is to induce immune response to the cell wall (and some other) proteins so the vaccine will have benefit against many strains. It's an approach that has been used with good results in other species (cattle, sheep, goats pigs). It would be nice to have a vaccine that included all strains but the cost would be too much for breeders to use it. I recognize that this approach is to some extent a compromise but there is no doubt that it is better than what has been available.

The following user would like to thank Bob Glass for this post
AnnClaire, FajerFarm, Jack, michaels4gardens

6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership
Posts: 1438
Joined: December 20, 2010
Location: Alaska
Thanks: 6
Thanked: 62 in 52 posts
BunnyBucks: 7,430.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#11  Unread postby Jack » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:36 pm


Yeah, anything is better than nothing
Thrianta Breeder extraordinaire,
well not really, but trying damn hard.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tundra-Treasures-Rabbitry/142934279087620

Site Supporter
4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 1812
Joined: February 18, 2013
Location: Big Island of Hawaii
United States of America Female
Thanks: 48
Thanked: 153 in 130 posts
BunnyBucks: 10,358.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#12  Unread postby dayna » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:11 pm


Thank you Bob for answering my question. I have seen other vaccines that are "multi" purpose. It protects against the main disease in the vaccine but also allows the body to fight off or have a lessened response to similar diseases.

I will discuss this with my husband but I think we are going to give the vaccine a try.

__________ Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:53 pm __________

A couple more questions.

1. Has this drug been tested in pregnant rabbits?
2. Does this drug pass into milk on nursing does?

I'm curious about vaccinating active breeding stock.

__________ Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:11 pm __________

Also I found out the shipping to Hawaii is $50. Can we get that lowered somehow? That's really high. I'm think a USPS Express mail would be cheaper.

The following user would like to thank dayna for this post
FajerFarm

6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership
Posts: 1438
Joined: December 20, 2010
Location: Alaska
Thanks: 6
Thanked: 62 in 52 posts
BunnyBucks: 7,430.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#13  Unread postby Jack » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:39 pm


this is a vaccine, not a drug, its different
the body has funny responses with pregnancy
it WON'T PASS, however a mother naturally provides the baby's immune system via milk, and this is a GOOD thing
Thrianta Breeder extraordinaire,
well not really, but trying damn hard.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tundra-Treasures-Rabbitry/142934279087620

Site Supporter
4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 1812
Joined: February 18, 2013
Location: Big Island of Hawaii
United States of America Female
Thanks: 48
Thanked: 153 in 130 posts
BunnyBucks: 10,358.00

Re: P vaccine causing bloody noses and particles

Post Number:#14  Unread postby dayna » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:43 pm


While it may be different it is not always safe to give a vaccine during pregnancy. I'd like to see what the people who developed the vaccine have to say.

Moderator
7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 14491
Joined: January 20, 2010
United States of America Female
Thanks: 963
Thanked: 1496 in 1224 posts
BunnyBucks: 56,195.00

Re: Info about Pan American Vet Labs' Vaccine for Pasteurella

Post Number:#15  Unread postby Miss M » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:56 pm


I am able to open them just fine in Open Office. :)

The "BunnyVac Information" opened up with two pages, though the second is blank. It appears that everything is on the first page, though, and that the second page was added just as an error in translation from .docx to .odt.
Sithrah Farm - http://sithrahfarm.com/

We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.
- James Madison

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest