and dog rescue in general. Especially 'no kill shelters'. We've had bad experiences, friends have had HORRID experiences, and so few are non-profit.

I'm sure there's possibly some good ones out there, but it's few & far between.

And I just think what they have evolved into completely disagrees with my own thoughts on animals.

I hate to say it..but...we have three rescued dogs and I can say with certainty that we're going to buy our next one.

We recently tried to rescue a dog. She'd been found in the oil fields less than a year prior as an adult, and the guy who found her was moving. His ideal home for her was "on a farm with other animals and kids" which set my alarm bells ringing, but we tried as a favor to a friend of a friend. Big mistake.

She was very dominant, would wrap her forelegs around the kid's legs- pounced on our male puppy and was very rough, strongly focused on cats/rabbits/chickens... we didn't dare let our female dog in with her. It was a nightmare.

With so many "good" animals out there, I don't have time for the bad ones. I did when I only had a couple of pets ("a couple"- hah!) when we lived in the 'burbs, but here in the country if it is not useful or productive it simply can't stay.

I hope you find a nice pup soon sommr, so you can raise it up right! I just love our current dogs- they are all smart and well mannered and a pleasure to be around... and we got 'em all as little pups.

My own personal preference is to flat out purchase a puppy of the breed that i want. I usually have only one dog at a time... spayed when old enough. I do not wish to deal with hoards of puppies. I like buying from a breeder as the ones i have dealt with are very careful about their pups. I can see the parents , or at least the mother, and judge for myself if it is what i can deal with.

After saying that... i do know a few people that have 'rescue' dogs and they are as happy with their pets as i am with mine. One couple i know have two mix breed dogs that mind so much better than most children. Those dogs are so happy and really want to please the couple.

I've also seen some sorry cases. In our area the himan society has practically nothing but pits and pit crosses. They advertise them as boxer crosses to try and find homes. Such a 'Good ' way to state a owner/pet relationship...with a lie !

I strongly feel that the Choice is mine Where and from Whom i purchase. Again that is only My preference.

SL: "I think I've pulled a 180 about 'animal rescue'"
MS: "With so many "good" animals out there, I don't have time for the bad ones. I did when I only had a couple of pets ("a couple"- hah!) when we lived in the 'burbs, but here in the country if it is not useful or productive it simply can't stay."




YES!

My family has done a 180 too, for all of the wonderfully summed up reasons. And yet if you try to mention any of this to the average Joe, you instantly become lumped in with the mean & evil "backyard breeders"... sigh.

I still remember when a co worker and I got into a discussion over him spouting "a mixed breed shelter dog is a better pet than a purebred dog"

His reasoning was that a mixed dog has the best of every breed while a purebred dog is a poor, 'inbred' and sickly creature prone to loads of health problems due to Evil Money Grubbing Breeder's practices.

I can't blame the co worker; this kind of info is hammered into articles everywhere nowadays BUT --- say you take two of these so-called purebred dogs and breed them together you'd get a mixed breed. And that mix breed ends up in the shelter - it is no healthier just because you've rescued it. It doesn't get JUST the best of both breeds from it's parents; it gets those bad hips and hot spots and whatnot - DUH.

And then there is the fact that the HSUS raises how much money, parading pictures of sorry looking critters and saying "Save a life" and yet only a tiny percentage is actually given to shelters to fund the care of these pets? Argh!

**Steps off soapbox. But I don't have to shout about this HERE - that's why I love this forum! Ya'll GET IT!!!

Having done small animal rescue, being involved with all those rescue groups (cults), and fostering dogs I have decided I am never setting foot in a shelter again. All my future animals will come from good quality breeders and pet stores that are selling their own personally bred quality animals with information.

I think we could pitch most of the rescues, all the big name groups, and many of the no kill shelters off a cliff and we'd be in a much better situation including the over population of animals.

I don't go for animal rescues. I admit, part of my reasoning is that I don't like to spay or neuter a dog when it isn't necessary - Bandit was a wonderfully well behaved dog that didn't spray, show aggression, or run away after females, and he was an intact 3 year old Border Collie. I like having the liberty of deciding to breed my animal if I want to, and I more than likely will breed at some point. I love mutts, but I need a pup that I can train and I need it to be capable of doing the job I want it to - SAR, stock dog work, etc. Rolling the dice with a shelter dog is dangerous in that situation.

Most rescues don't take too kindly to that.

Oh man, I can't agree more. I work in a salon, and I tell you...I've rescued two dogs now and will probably never do it again. I love them both, they are great dogs, and they have a list of health problems a mile long...EACH. They are train wrecks...my little tiny mixed dog is the epitome of terrible health, she is awfully badly put together, makes me crazy. I've spent thousands on her breakable little body...and my old Cocker Spaniel is generally ok but he's all messed up in other ways. He's permanently weird from strokes, for example. Also he bites.

Mixing breeds does NOT guarantee health, in fact many mixes are crappier than the average dog because the dogs used to make them (talking "designer dogs" here, not shelter mutts...I'll get to those in a second) are often from people who only care for money (THESE are the people who give good breeders a bad name!!!!) and so their dogs aren't screened or tested before breeding. I see so many "hybrid" breeds -Yorkipoos, Maltipoos, Shmorkies, Pomchis, Chiweenies, and of course the famed Labradoodle and it's mutant mat-prone sibling the Goldendoodle (as a groomer, that word strikes fear into my heart)-....and people pay THOUSANDS for these MUTTS!!!! People think you can take X breed and mix it with Y, and BAM, new breed! NO THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS. And they are not "hybrids" at all...hybridization occurs when you mix two totally different species, like horses and donkeys make mules, or tigers and lions make ligers. DOG + DOG only ever gives you A DOG, not some totally new species!!!!

As for shelter mutts...I do not believe in no-kill shelters. I think a good dog should be given a chance...I'm all for shelters. But life is like a tree...everyone starts out with all the potential in the world, like the trunk of a tree...as times go on, a mixture of the events that shape out our lives and the effects of our own actions cause us to take different paths, like choosing the branch of a tree. There is no going back, once a path has been chosen (willingly or no) you move ever onward...each crossroads in your life is like the branch of a tree, forking one way or another, to the tips of each "branch"...and while it is almost never the fault of the dog, once their paths are chosen, they often cannot go back. It is a shame, but there are so many good dogs, dogs who've often had a terrible life, who are in desperate need of help and love...and yet our shelters claim that every dog needs saving so they're overburdened and overstressed trying to save the bad ones. Not every dog can be salvaged. Now...my tiny health-screwed baby is a shelter baby. She has physical problems but no emotional or mental ones, and no behaviour problems. She's one of the sweetest, nicest, most well-adjusted dogs I know. She has a wonderful personality and if she weren't so physically screwed, I'd look into making her a therapy dog. She's amazing. SHE is one of the good ones, but...her sister from the same litter (the whole litter plus mom was surrendered when the pups were a day old) is a VICIOUS biter. She has a totally different personality...she is just rotten to the core, agressive by nature, and resistant to training. Thankfully after biting a few of the groomers (and the owner, and the owner's friend...) they don't bring her in any more, but...I'm shocked they'd adopt out that monster. She needs the needle, stat. That loving home could have been given to a dog with a heart of gold, not a vicious snarling monster!

As to breeders being the "bad guys"...I will say this, the AKC should take a lesson from the ARBA. Some unscrupulous people will get two poor-quality dogs who are registered, and breed them with no concern to the health of the dogs or inherited problems, and sell the pups way cheaper than the good breeders. People then get suckered into buying "pedigreed" dogs who are no more healthy than their unfortunate shelter mutt counterparts. Then folk claim that breeders are breeding sickly, weak and inbred individuals and they point to those craptastic "purebreds" as proof. My old Cocker Spaniel is an example of this...he's a piece of crap by Cocker standards, and he has the list of health problems (mostly genetic) to prove it. He's also HIDEOUS by the AKC breed standard. Yet his first owner bought him because he's "OMG PURE." He's a terrible Cocker and I warn everyone who meets him that he is not a "good" Cocker. He's a good dog (when not biting people) but he's a bad example of the breed. Purity means nothing when the breeder doesn't care about producing quality! Buyer beware...I've known people who balk at the price of a good puppy, but think on this: if you buy a dog who is guaranteed via parental genetic screening to be free of all genetic defects, you won't have to pay the price later for, say...sugery for dysplastic dogs or luxating patellas. Or deal with premature blindness. Or cope with the untimely death of the dog. It is a down-payment on the best possible dog you can get, health wise.

I wish the AKC was more like the ARBA...only allowing the registration of dogs that at least somewhat comply to breed standards.

People get stupid where dogs are concerned. They think of them as something they are not, and they get all holier than thou on others. They lose sight of what really matters, and they blame the wrong people for the problems in the world.

Worst of all, they lack the ability to stop and really think about things.

Where I work, there is a charity through our buisness. I do not donate to it, because it uses "end euthanasia" as a catchprase, and demands that all our money be geared towards stopping dogs from being put down. I plead for more rational approaches...I like our local Humane Society. They will euthanize a dog or cat who they deem to be dangerous or unadoptable, but will keep dogs or cats for months if not YEARS if that animal has a good disposition. My cat was from them...they had her for over a year because she's got a wonderful personality. Nevermind that everyone passed her up for being anatomically strange (she's a Munchkin who has deformed front legs) and a senior kitty (she's 13)...she's an abuse case (poor baby was beaten, had most of her teeth smashed!) who never let it get her down. It astounds me that after all she's been through...ear infections that scarred her ears and have left her nearly deaf...abuse that makes her drool and eat funny...life in a shelter after a life of hardship and starvation...and yet, every person she meets, she treats it like an opportunity to trust again. She loves and trusts every person she meets! Now THAT is a personality that needs saving...not some dog who has, again through no fault of it's own, learned to fear and bite whenever stressed, or a dog who viciously attacks someone over a toy or something.

Yet co-workers claim I'm not helping animals in need by donating to shelters who care more about giving the good ones a chance, than the shelters who waste space and resources on a dog or cat who isn't going to be salvageable.

tl;dr version: I think it far more humane to send a miserably fearful or vicious dog to the next world and end their fear and misery.

I agree with other posters feelings in that puppies from good breeders are the way to go. I recently got an older puppy and even she has a buttload of issues to work through -- mostly due to fears stemming from lack of proper early socialization. Had I just started with a puppy from scratch I would have been much better off and had more early success in training and putting a good solid foundation on her.

People that throw away their dogs tend to be the same ones that don't do ANY training or put any manners on the dog.

I read somewhere once -- erg, can't remember where, sorry -- that once a dog is re-homed from its original home it is significantly less likely to find a 'forever' home and more likely to end up in a shelter.

Most people don't have what it takes to handle a puppy. They get a cute baby pup, and when it is little, the naughty behaviours are "cute"...they don't have forsight, they don't train, they don't socialize.

And their DOG suffers for it.

People laughed when I enrolled my one-pound Chihuahua mix puppy in obedience classes...now they've all seen what can happen when you properly train/socialize your dog. Toy dogs are the worst, owners coddle them instead of train them, and refuse to let delicate Toy-breed puppies play with other dogs for fear they will get hurt...and then their dogs are horrible.

MY dog obeys commands happily, is totally trustworthy off-leash (and once you see a three-pound adult Chi-mix at the heel position, well.... you mind = BLOWN) and has never nipped for any reason ever. She doesn't bark, she doesn't pee in the house, she doesn't incessantly lick faces...and unlike most Chis, she's calm, friendly and relaxed. Don't blame her other "contributing breed" either...she's three-quarters Chihuaha, one quarter DACHSHUND, you know...a breed KNOWN for barking, digging, and biting!

The people who laughed at her puppy classes are now amazed that my dog...my three-pound tiny dog! ...is the nicest dog around! Now if only she didn't have bad knees and bad hips...and a bone-density problem (she's broken two legs already)...

I dont believe in No kill shelters.a friend of mine adopted a dog from the shelter, pretty golden mix.fearful biting nut case.the vet said put her down shes basiclly untrainable and had some neurologic issues.there are plenty of good dogs needing homes, i dont think every dog should be saved.I love dogs but with children in this country going hungry i think its insane too spend 8000 dollars too get a shelter dog special surgery.

I used to get dogs to from shelters. In the past, we've gotten pure bred animals from shelters. I also used to rescue and rehome dogs. There is something that I noticed. Sometimes the dog is in the shelter not because of the owners lack of training, but because poor breeding created poor temperaments. Poor breeding and lack of early socialization by a poor breeder who preys on an unsuspecting buyer. Then there are always the ones that are damaged goods. You could luck up and find one whose owner could not take care of them/died/was lost, etc.

The last rescue I took home tried to take off my fingers in the car, when I reached in the back seat. This was a 12 week old Akita puppy. He did not make it home with me.

I've deal with some unscrupulous show breeders as well, and I do wish the AKC was more like the ARBA, but if they base it on show quality, only 2-3 pups (or sometimes none) from the litter are show quality, so they would lose so much revenue from unregistered puppies. Of a litter of 9, I only had two showable puppies.

Now I just breed what I want, when I want a puppy. I know what I have to work with, I know what I want in a dog, and I only go outside of my lines when I need to add something. Kind of like rabbits.

My sister once adopted a kitten from a shelter, only to have to put her down a few months later for feline leukemia. She was heartbroken. If the shelter had done what it should have, the only cats available for adoption would have been reasonably healthy, and would have saved my sister all that grief and expense.

Had a siamese cat, when I was 9. Got him from a shelter, died a year later. Feline leukemia as well (took him back to the shelter for diganosis). Got one from a shelter, turns out it was pregnant! Took it back to the shelter vet, who fixed her, never did say anything about the pregnancy. I've had a pregnant cat, I knew she was obviously pregnant.

This is one reason I actually lean more towards kill shelters. There are plenty of good animals that would make much better pets with less issues all around for the owners and dogs. Some just due to bad breeding or bad experience really are best put down for everyone given our current overpopulation problems and the shelters would not be wracking up the bills they are. Many no kill shelters here have come to a halt, unable to take in or place any animals because they have filled up with unadoptable animals who are just going more and more nuts by the day as they sit in cages with little exercise and attention. We often pts before we take to shelters because if we can't find it a home after several months it's probably not suitable for one. There's been a few exceptions when I get 5-10 animals dumped on me or something that I knew could be worked with but was ill or busy at the time. There is a specific shelter we work with that is very realistic about things and it is also the one who runs the canine activity center I do training classes and competitions through. I pay member dues toward that and we do drop off anything we can't use anymore or brands of dog food ours didn't like that are still in the bag. 90% of the shelters and rescues around here including breed rescues I am not contacting nor sending anyone there. I will send them to a good breeder instead. All they have is what they've taken from the puppy mills and bad breeders which are horrible representations of the breed and then they have insane requirements for adoption plus a price tag as high as a well bred puppy of that breed if you know where to look.

That makes me crazy, too. Insane adoption requirements are stupid, plus they invariably adopt out dogs to totally unsuitable owners because they "meet our requirements." My friend, roommate and co-worker wanted to adopt a dog. She at the time was moving into a dog-friendly apartment complex...she paid the pet deposit even before "dogsearching" and got her whole life ready for a dog...had a vet lined up, and since she's a groomer the dog would have had regular grooming. She met a dog at a rescue, a beautiful Boxer, and tried to adopt him.

They denied her adoption request due to her not owning a home. Renting a place is against their policy. Without irony, the rescue was full of dogs surrendered due to at the time the sudden housing issues and at-the-time economy collapse!!!!

She watched the Boxer on their Petfinder listings, languishing in a shelter for the following year before he "disappeared." He was not adopted. Meanwhile, she'd acquired a Beagle/Basset mix from another rescue...and Lou, her good ol' hound, had a great life...five mile walks every day, the best food on the market, the best vet care. He wasn't a young dog so the rest of his life wasn't long but it was a dog's dream-home. The nice Boxer missed out on it due to their absurd rules.

Meanwhile, one of the local shelters allowed my cousin to adopt a pair of Pit Bulls. Both dogs were abuse cases and came from fighting lines, and were indeed police seizure dogs on a raid. Neither dog had ever met before she took them home. Lo and behold, both are dog agressive (NOT SHOCKING) and immediately attacked each other on sight. She was shocked. Somehow she assumed that if she just got them into a "loving home" they'd be ok. She has a certain naivete when it comes to dogs, she never trains or socializes them, she is a terrible owner actually. I was horrified that the rescue allowed someone with no experience with Pit Bulls to adopt TWO at the same time who BOTH have severe behavioral issues! They should have known better!!! I love Pits but....gods, they are NOT a "beginner" breed!

She finally gave away the female, and kept the male...who has since killed all of her chickens, tore every last sheep she owned to pieces (literally, it was gruesome and horrifying) and now her housecats are locked in the basement so he won't kill them too. I think it is insanity. He's a nice dog but he's too damaged! How many of her other animals have to die before she realizes it?! I worry about her walking that dog...she's 65, very thin and a bit frail, and is diabetic and prone to sugar imbalances...gods forbid that dog get away from her, someone else's pets will get shredded.

Shame on her for thinking she could handle a difficult, damaged dog. Doubly shame on the rescue for allowing this situation just because she has a steady job and owns her own home with a fenced yard. The fence didn't stop him from jumping over it to get into the paddock where the sheep were, or the chicken yard...