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I'm downright pissed.

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#31  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:48 am


SarniaTricia wrote:Personally, I would move all the kits from mom and monitor.


So.... what about nursing?

SarniaTricia wrote:There is a lab you can send a sample to test
http://pavlab.com/


Thank you!
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#32  Unread postby shazza » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:52 am


i usually always wean my kits at 5 weeks - they're usually physiologically weaned around 4 weeks anyway, so pulling them now wouldn't be a problem. just keep an eye on them for enteritis. i usually add a handful of rolled oats to my feed for the first couple days after weaning just in case.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#33  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:58 am


They are separated during the day already (4 weeks old on Saturday) and have a mixture of rolled oats and pellets that they are always munching on. They've been shelved for the first few weeks and now spend the majority of their time in a separate pen from Alice to give her peace, lol. They are with momma from about 7pm through the night until about 7-9am when I feed and water.

Thank you Shazza!
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#34  Unread postby SarniaTricia » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:38 am


I have weaned as early as 4 weeks... I don't like to, but sometimes it's needed....

I think they will be fine without visiting mom.... but, don't free feed pellets.... make sure you are supplying just enough for the day and as much hay as they can eat in a day, removing any excess in the AM.... weaning enteritis is a serious threat when weaned early, but it is manageable.... I also dust kits with a bit of bene-bac on their heads to encourage them to groom each other ... that also seems to help the growth of good probiotics and they seem happier if they are grooming each other.

they should seem HUNGRY in the morning... and have no hay or pellets left.... any that don't act hungry, I pull out and dose with Pro-bios gel ...

I've not used the Oats... but, I'm going to try that with the next batch of weaners! as anything that helps them with the transition is good.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#35  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:51 am


What causes weaning enteritis? They've seriously been chowing down on solid food including grass (which they get daily and they eat all of) for the past 4-5 days. I've never weaned this early so I'm not totally familiar with enteritis in kits other than hearing about it. They are handled daily and look forward to it (because it often entails being let loose on the ground to race about like little loons) and their new cage is the cage they've been living their days in for the last 4-5 days so it's not a shock of a new location. Stress is very low for these kits and they have a fibrous diet and are used to the pellets/oats and grasses that they've been munching on happily. I'm not saying it's not a serious issue to be cautious about, but I thought those were all factors of weaning enteritis? Stress from being moved to a new area, new diet, & not enough fiber.

How do I know how much feed to give them? 1oz each? (We're at or nearing a pound for all the kits) I assume keep giving them the handful of grass they are accustomed to consuming.

Thanks a ton guys! Reading the email I received from that one website really took the wind out of my sails.

With how symptomatic Alice is I'm really thinking about culling her and Bill in a few weeks once I'm sure the kits are weaned, then splitting up the litter with Alpha, Bravo and Foxtrot in one pen and the rest eatables in the other. Cross my fingers A, B, and F don't show signs. Alice seems to feel fine, hopping up and down on her perch and curious if I have any Calf Manna for her, but her nose is constantly wet and creamy colored with quite a few sneezes, definitely hear her sneeze multiple times every day. :( Bill does the occasional sneeze and that's all he's ever shown, but the only way Alice could have gotten snuffles is from spending time with him so he has to be a carrier even though he hardly shows it.

If the keeper kits all end up showing symptoms over the summer I'll just cut my losses on the astrex project.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#36  Unread postby shazza » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:54 am


it's really just the stress that causes enteritis - being moved to a new cage/away from mom can stress them out. if you've been taking them away every day though i honestly don't think you'd have a problem. it'd just be like 'oh tonight we sleep here okay' more than anything. you usually see it when you move the kits away from mom into a new cage entirely. honestly though i move my weaned kits from their mom's cage into a big colony hutch all together and i imagine that's a bit stressful but i've never had enteritis issues. they all seem REALLY excited actually when they realize they have tons of space!
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#37  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:25 pm


I'm sorry crazy. Have them tested to see exacly wich bacteria it is like was suggested. Ive dealth with my friend's snuffles epidemia and it wasnt fun and yeah I did have to cull all the babies I raised for her even though one of em made it through and seemed perfectly healty

Beleive it or not Ive had to wean at 2 weeks old. When Boulette's mom decided to eat steel wire -_- , I had no foster doe for em so I had to wean. Well I had 1 doe, but she wouldnt take em and killed one before I could take it away and another died after from the shock of the event... sigh. I gave em apples, it's what saved the rest. They got their fluid from em since they didn't know how to drink. A week later I added a 1month old boy with em to teach em how to drink and eat hay and they were so happy to have him around it was adorable (my avatar)

I rly need to take pictures, but Im waiting for a friend to come help me cause I cant do it with 1 arm. I seem to actually have 2 "sortof" astrex kits in Eva's litter. I didnt notice the orange was one before yesterday. My guess is that they dont feel/grow the same as Mei cause Mei's a double mane while they are not. They are single or no mane. I know you live far but if you want em maybe we can figure something out? I know its not the same as Alice or her kits though :/

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#38  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:17 pm


So small update: I've culled out any and all rabbits that have shown symptoms. This includes the entire astrex line and I'm re-evaluating the direction I'm headed with the rabbitry. So my very original line that I started with and had 4 generations on down is now gone. It was a sad day but I decided I didn't want to deal with it especially when my plans are starting to look bigger into pure breeds. We're planning on moving soon to a home with more acreage, almost got a house with 26 acres! Now we're looking at just 5 acres and we'll see if it's still on the market by the end of the week.

Since the move is imminent I wanted to be clean and clear of infectious rabbits before we moved them to a new place. While I still had Alpha, Bravo and Foxtrot they were very isolated with hard plastic dividers and I always messed with them at the very end. I culled out the line a few months ago and no one else has shown any signs of issues. Over the summer I picked up two large breed lop mixes and they had a litter of very fast growing lop eared bunnies, one of which I kept as a breeder due to his sweet nature and quick growth (5 pounds at 9 weeks of age) and so of all my rabbits, he would be the least likely to be infected. I then put him next to the rabbit who was the most likely to be infected (due to proximity) for a few weeks and they had plenty of nose to nose contact, and I even swapped cages. Then I took him into the local bunny vet's office for a blood test (snot test would have been better, but no one is sneezing or having issues) and his blood was clear for any antibodies. So he does not have it now nor did he have it previously.

I'm still going to be watching like a hawk, but I'm pretty pleased to say the rabbitry is clean once again. No Astrex, but who knows, maybe one will pop up again.

This is my poor boy who got subjected to a blood draw in a scary vet's office. He's wonderful and totally makes up for the lack of astrex. :in_love: The vet techs said he was the nicest rabbit they've dealt with!
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#39  Unread postby MaggieJ » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:01 pm


Very nice to see you back, Crazy! :D I was thinking about you just the other day and wondering if you had deserted us.

Sad that you had to do such heavy culling, but I think you did the smart thing. I'm a firm believer in closed rabbitries as the best way to prevent major disease outbreaks.

Your lop is a handsome fellow! He looks very mellow too. :)

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#40  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:07 pm


So sad about the astrex line, maybe one day you'll get another.
At least you are in the clear now.
Good luck finding a good home

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#41  Unread postby shazza » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:25 pm


sorry to hear you had to cull out your astrex, poker alice's kits were beautiful :( i wish i had known, i'd have bought the furs from the astrex off of you to add to my bunny pelt museum project.

good luck on your move though! we're about to buy five acres up in washington and i'm so ready to have more space!
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#42  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:29 pm


MaggieJ wrote:Very nice to see you back, Crazy! :D I was thinking about you just the other day and wondering if you had deserted us.

Sad that you had to do such heavy culling, but I think you did the smart thing. I'm a firm believer in closed rabbitries as the best way to prevent major disease outbreaks.

Your lop is a handsome fellow! He looks very mellow too. :)


I thought about y'all often and have been meaning to start posting again but you know how life is; it likes to get in the way. Definitely been missing everyone! This is such a great community here. The whole pasteurella issue had really been weighing on me and when I finally decided just to cull my way out of it the weight eased up. Now seeing as it's been a few months without anyone else showing symptoms, paired with the blood test results, my spirits are lifting! I probably could have continued with the Astrex and gotten out disease free in the long run since Foxtrot wasn't showing much, if any, symptoms. She was living with her sister, Bravo, who was doing the occasional sneeze and often showed snot. So the fact that Foxtrot was showing some immunity I might have been able to cull Alpha and Bravo, but then I'm back at 1 astrex coated doe who "might or might not" be infectious. Paired with pet sitters who may not follow the quarantine rules I have laid out....... I decided it would be best to just get out completely. Less risk = better in the long run if I wanted to stay in rabbits.

Thank you for the compliment on Hoss! I can't believe how fun he is, seriously like a little dog. In fact, I've been trying to get him harness trained :lol:

KimitsuKouseki wrote:Good luck finding a good home


Thank you Kimitsu! When the timing is right, we'll get the perfect one. The one we're looking at is quite a bit less on the pocketbook which is a relief.

shazza wrote:sorry to hear you had to cull out your astrex, poker alice's kits were beautiful :( i wish i had known, i'd have bought the furs from the astrex off of you to add to my bunny pelt museum project.

good luck on your move though! we're about to buy five acres up in washington and i'm so ready to have more space!


Shazza, I have the furs in the freezer! You're welcome to them for free if you think you can do something with them. The way I tan furs around here (badly and with no success) they'll be much better off with you. I actually donated about 30 some furs to the local wolfdog rescue for enrichment and toothbrushes, lol. If you can figure out a way to get them shipped (I know nothing about shipping raw fur) they're yours. Foxtrot's coat was much nicer than Bravos, she would have been a pretty awesome start to the line had we not had this infection issue.

Oh congrats on your upcoming move Shazza! How exciting, I love the land up in Washington. Is it wooded or cleared?
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#43  Unread postby shazza » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:01 pm


ooh, i'll take 'em! you can mail them frozen as long as it's shipped to arrive within 3 days (priority boxes are popular, packed with paper or insulation with some frozen bottles to keep everything cool.) it's flopping between cold and warm here in texas, (it snowed thursday night, today it's nearly 60 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) but it should be ok. i can PM you my address and any other stuff if you want! and i can cover shipping as well, since it'll be a heavy box.

both of the properties we are looking at are semi-wooded - one is on a pylon line so most of it is pasture (we would be allowed to graze around the pylons as long as the power company is allowed to access the area,) and the other is overgrown with blackberries and will need to be bush-hogged. both are right in the foothills of the mountaints - one in the cascades and one in the olympics. it's coming down to space and the commute for the boys to their jobs in bellevue. we're supposed to have a ~family meeting~ tonight to discuss it...but hopefully it won't be too long after new years and we'll be making that 40 hour road trip!
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#44  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:10 pm


Excellent! In that case lets go for it. Might be a good idea to wait for another cold snap? Plus I've got finals week next week so likely won't be able to get around to it until Friday at the earliest. Well good, I'm so glad they'll be used instead of ending up either ruined by my attempts or fed to canines, these guys were pretty special and culling them wasn't easy. The goal has always been to make something with the furs but I've not yet had time to really figure out what I've been doing wrong.... I think I'll leave that until later next year.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#45  Unread postby shazza » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:10 pm


there's no telling when it'll get cool again, haha, forecast says it'll be warmer into next week so guess we'll just have to risk it :p and that's fine! i have tons of skins in the pickle right now that i'm trying to get taken care of too, i can try to remember to remind you next weekend ;D
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