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I'm downright pissed.

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#16  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Mon May 29, 2017 9:10 am


KimitsuKouseki wrote:If you ever visit quebec, let me know. I decided to keep her, called her Mei. So I could see if I can get her to pop you a astrex baby by the time you visit.


I LOVE Canada! I fell in love when I canoed the boundary waters three times between the ages of 12 and 14. :love: I wanted to live up there for a long time but finally decided I hate the cold and would quickly turn into a popsicle. So I may take you up on your offer in the future :D

UFCreel wrote:I would suggest getting an electric collar for the training of your dog. To stop the behavior you are experiencing with it towards your rabbits.


Gaea is a 10 year old rescue with very low wolf content (16%). Her prey drive is not going anywhere and I sure as heck am not putting an electric collar on her. There is no training the prey drive out of this girl as she is a combination of highly prey driven animals (Husky, German Shepherd, Malamute, and wolf) and has a very long tally of small animals lost to her jaws. Before I got her she had an unlimited number of squirrel kills, three skunk kills, quite a few of his stupid chicken kills, and who knows what else while she was isolated on his land. (Large half acre pen, no companionship, would not allow anyone to touch her for 5 years) Then once I got her and started working with her she's since tallied up about four squirrels, one raccoon, one opossum, a cat, two small dogs, and one of my kits. I've successfully trained/managed Loki, my German Shepherd's prey drive even with her insane love of squirrels I could stop her with a command. She has a will to please that my other dog, Gaea, is lacking.

At this point there is no changing her, especially with something so genetically and historically ingrained in her, and the most that would happen if I had the cages where she was able to get them, and an electric collar, would be that I would lose all my rabbits and send her training back a few years. :x You would not believe how long it took her to stop submissive peeing every time my husband even glanced in her direction.

A golden and a rottie are very, very different dogs. I'm glad you were able to find a solution to your dogs, and I have found mine. Rabbitry fort knox. Thank you for the suggestion though! I know you were trying to help and that is much appreciated. :)

Pictured is Gaea making sure Rabbitry Fort Knox hasn't sprung any holes... my quality inspector. :roll:
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#17  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Mon May 29, 2017 6:41 pm


2CrazyFools wrote:
KimitsuKouseki wrote:If you ever visit quebec, let me know. I decided to keep her, called her Mei. So I could see if I can get her to pop you a astrex baby by the time you visit.


I LOVE Canada! I fell in love when I canoed the boundary waters three times between the ages of 12 and 14. :love: I wanted to live up there for a long time but finally decided I hate the cold and would quickly turn into a popsicle. So I may take you up on your offer in the future :D

I hate the cold too XD but I was born here so maybe one day I'll move to US, but immigration is a bitch.
I'd be rly happy to have you visit ^^ and if I was able to get Mei to give you an astrex I'd glad.

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#18  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Tue May 30, 2017 3:28 pm


alforddm wrote:Here are the links.
I'm not sure I would cull rabbits that you obviously love on the chance you can get some that are 100% clean.

I finally got around to reading the links you provided, I wanted to distance myself from this situation for a few days to level my head prior to reading what you suggested.

After reading through those I really feel like I could eventually get snuffles resistant stock. Obviously I will eventually need to cull Alice since she is displaying symptoms (they even mentioned the first kindle can be the first time you see signs of snuffles in an infected bun) but I can still get a few more litters out of her, keep the prospects and cull hard while keeping a closed rabbitry.

I have no doubt in my mind that my buck is infected, though he has never displayed any symptoms. (He spent a LOT of time with the infected American rabbits) So once my bottle babies are old enough to breed I'll need to purchase a new, clean buck for them and keep them isolated on the other side of the rabbitry.

I'll also have to put my rex dreams on hold but I think it's worth it to see where this astrex meat mutt venture takes me. Maybe I'm just blinded by kits right now but I really want to attempt it. Like you said Alforddm, this will always been an issue in the rabbit world and it may be smarter to try and create resistant rabbits or I may be dealing with this forever.

Alice is still sneezing on occasion but I have never seen white snot. She did get damp from clear snot these last few days (see second pic) but nothing thick or creamy. I also haven't heard obstruction in her breathing and I think what I had heard previously was just her grumbling at me because she was doing it again today when I reached in there to give her some calf-manna.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#19  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Tue May 30, 2017 4:42 pm


Im glad you took the time to calm down and decided to give your buns a chance. I wish them well

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#20  Unread postby alforddm » Tue May 30, 2017 5:16 pm


If your buck has never shown symptoms, despite being exposed repeatedly, that could be a sign that he's got a really good immune system.

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#21  Unread postby MaggieJ » Tue May 30, 2017 8:20 pm


I'm sorry, Crazy . . . I intended to get back to this but somehow got sidetracked.

In retrospect, I think I had asymptomatic rabbits carrying snuffles and never knew it. Everybunny seemed perfectly healthy. Then I brought in two new rabbits, quarantined them for a month and then integrated them. The new doe was dead within 24 hours of what seemed to be a respiratory problem. She was wet around the nose and mouth. At the time, I assumed I had bought a rabbit with a health problem. The buck didn't sicken and looked okay but less than a year later he died suddenly too. All the rabbits raised here were fine.

I brought in yet another buck in from another rabbitry and all was well for quite some time. He was an aggressive breeder and when his son turned out to be much nicer to the ladies, I put Dad in a cage. Not too long afterwards, he developed multiple abscesses and I culled him.

Soooo . . . three rabbits came in during our ten years in rabbits. All three died prematurely. Eventually, the penny dropped. Those poor imported bunnies were exposed to "something" here. I closed my rabbitry at that point -- no one live in or out -- and had no further issues. I had to quit rabbits a few years later because of mobility issues, but except for those instances I outlined, I saw very little illness in my herd in all that time.

So . . . I second what Alforddm has been telling you. You can keep your rabbits in a closed rabbitry and work towards your goals. If I were doing rabbits again, I'd have a totally closed rabbitry in any case. Fewer problems by far.

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#22  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:43 am


Well she wanted to feed them at 5:30am this morning (she's in the indoor quarentine hutch still so I can keep an eye on her occasional sneezes) so I got up and got her the kits and after about 5 minutes I put them back up, fat and happy. On my way back to bed she erupts into a small sneezing fit (4-5 sneezes in a row) and I see two spots of snot on her face so I quickly open the door before she can clean herself up and swipe a spot. Both appeared to be tinged with blood. It doesn't look like obvious heavy white snot that I saw on the Americans, but more a milky clear.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#23  Unread postby Sagebrush » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:55 am


I am sorry Crazy. Though looking at your screenshots, could she have gotten something up in her nose when she was kindling and putting everything into the nest? I do not see the milky snot, but I see a lot of mucus, some blood, and small specs of what looks green to me. In all the cases of pasteurella that I have seen and heard about, there has never been any mention of green in the mucus.

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#24  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:17 am


It wasn't green, I think it was dirt probably from the roots of a plant that I brought in for her to eat. But I agree with you, it did not look like the white snot I'd witnessed on the Americans but yeah, mucus. Almost reminded me of a mushy overripe banana.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#25  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:20 am


Im sorry crazy :(. Maybe she'll get better and the kits wont catch it.

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#26  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:38 am


I plan on getting about 3 litters out of her and keeping all the astrex coated kits (separated in pairs as suggested) then culling any that show symptoms. Once I've got a good stock of them to watch for issues I'll cull Alice and Bill. I'm working on the rabbitry this next week, building a few more hutches, and moving Alice and Bill's pens to a more isolated position from the bottle babies. I'm going to pick up another buck sometime this summer, A&M composite because I've been very pleased with Bill so far and he's a mix. So this other buck will be for the bottle babies and keep that trio on the other side of the rabbitry. I may even create a make-shift wall to keep things separated.

So yeah, the entire Rex direction is put on hold for a few years while I deal with this. It is what it is, and I'm making the most of it. :)
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#27  Unread postby shazza » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:25 am


sorry all this is happening :( i've had some sneezing myself but after butchering them i saw no abnormalities in the lungs so i'm pretty sure it was "just" a respiratory infection. a pen-g shot and the remainder have all cleared up. but i share your panic....hearing a rabbit sneeze and rub it's face is terrifying @___@ i hope you get it eradicated quickly and you can still make something of your astrex!


seriously though, i LOVE my composites. so worth the 8 hour road trip to kingsville to pick them up. they have a ton of HUGE babies that grow out in like, 12 weeks, and they're beautiful. one of my does carries satin and i was so thrilled! i kept back one of her satin (chocolate!!!!) sons to strengthen that trait and he is absolutely wonderful. if you are standing at the cage he's demanding you rub his head, constantly. like headbutt you to scratch him demanding. his dad is also really sweet for a rabbit who was raised with little human contact. i wish more people knew about them and they were easier to acquire because if you like diversity in your litters, great growth, and fantastic personality...get a composite. i'm reintroducing harlequin and silvering back into mine too so i hope to have some really awesome litters to sell to other people like me who love interesting colours :p

i apparently have no good photos that show his satiny goodness but here's him laying on one of his future girlfriends
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and his dad, because i love him and his massive head and tendency to go into flop comas at any and all times of day
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i had mentioned in my email to the college that i was interested in the composites specifically because i am a tanner and love the varity of colours so he specifically held adún for me because he was pretty haha.
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#28  Unread postby MaggieJ » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:51 am


Glad you've got a plan in place, Crazy, and that's you're moving forward with it. :goodjob:

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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#29  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:24 am


Well that's highly discouraging! :(

I emailed the admin at this website, How to Combat Snuffles, a few questions about isolation etc... and this was the response I got.

I am sorry, but my advice is to cull them all. It is very hard, but as far as I am concerned they are all carriers and will transmit to the rest of your herd unless they are kept in a separate building forever. Even that is dicey,because you could carry germs on your hands and clothing back and forth.

Sorry I could not give hopeful advice.


Well then why do you have that article on your website?! :evil:

So I found the creator of the article (Wendy Feaga) on Facebook and shot her a message, hopefully she'll accept my message request (my luck it'll go into her filter messages and she won't see it until next year!) and have a more hopeful outlook.

Until then, I guess I'll ask y'all handy people here if you have any suggestions.

I know for a fact it is snuffles and it's quite obvious. Lots of sneezing, Alice's white nose is often creamy colored from rubbing her snotty nose with her paws, and her first inner toe nails are started to show rubbing on her front feet. I've moved the infected rabbits further away from the bottle-babies on the other side of the enclosure.

Her kits will be 4 weeks old this Saturday, and one of them is showing symptoms. Of course it'd be the cutest blue eyed white... I guess that makes it easy to eat her when the time comes. =\ Now I've been removing the kits from the mother's cage just about every day to give Mom some time away from them and I do have a few questions about keeping the kits isolated.

1. I've been leaving the affected kit in mother's pen and not around the other kits during the day. Should I even worry about this? They are drinking from the same nipples and sleeping together at night.

2. I can easily keep the kits isolated and just put them in their mother's cages for an hour in the AM and PM to limit their time with the active virus, but again, they will probably have it on their fur and from drinking milk. Would this be a good idea to separate or really just a useless extra step?

3. I prefer to wean at 6-8 weeks but they are very active about eating solid food at this point and was wondering if it'd be a good idea to wean them at 4-5 weeks and keep them isolated away from mother and the kit showing symptoms? I have plenty of cage space.

Thoughts?
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Re: I'm downright pissed.

Post Number:#30  Unread postby SarniaTricia » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:43 am


Personally, I would move all the kits from mom and monitor.

I've done a lot of research on this:
There is a lab you can send a sample to test
http://pavlab.com/

Bortadella and Pasturella (spelling?) are very similar when they start to show symptoms.... Bortadella can be treated..

Good luck :D
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