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I Hate New Colors in Heritage Breeds!!!

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I Hate New Colors in Heritage Breeds!!!

Post Number:#1  Unread postby OldEnglishSilvers88 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:42 pm


Okay so I'm new here but I've been reading on here for about 8 months now and just recently decided to join. First let me say that I love this site. Very good information and the people appear to be nice and helpful, anyways on to what I need to get off my chest. It might be a little bit controversial, but I needed to get this off my chest.



It makes me livid when people ruin heritage breeds with new colors. What's worse is when they turn around and call it 'heritage'. No, it is not. Heritage is exactly that: heritage. That means that the original colors (or patterns) were always there and that is what their original creator wanted. I raise Silver Fox rabbits and for anyone that doesn't know, Silver Foxes are a rare and heritage breed (the third breed developed in America), the breed has two colors black and blue. Blue was dropped by the ARBA in the 1970's for lack of entries. The black is the last man standing.
Many breeders are trying to introduce more colors, like chocolate, lilac, and even white. Supposedly the chocolate has a certificate of development on it. This makes me sad for many reasons, but here are two very good ones. The Silver Fox is rare, threatened, and truly heritage, it was the third breed developed in America. You have destroyed the heritage symbol. Second, the Silver Fox took THIRTEEN plus years to get the results Walter B. Garland wanted. The stand up fur, the ticking, the perfect even ticking in the coat, had been destroyed. You do not know what kind of genetic issues you're bringing in when you cross to achieve new colors\patterns, you destroy American heritage, you risk losing the one of a kind stand up fur, you straight up ruin it for people actually interested in preserving such a rare beauty.



I am very passionate about my favorite breed of rabbit (Silver Fox) and I believe in true value and to preserve real American success.



Pull the COD's out of your a$$s and ruin another breed! :evil:
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Re: I Hate New Colors in Heritage Breeds!!!

Post Number:#2  Unread postby SableSteel » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:51 pm


I think it can draw more attention to the rarer breeds, though if I were looking for a heritage breed, I would definitely want the original colors. Every breed needs new blood added at some time, and if people decide to make a new color out of that new blood... May be a waste of resources that could've been spent on improving the original color lines, and annoying, but to each their own. I raise Himalayans, which originally came in black & blue, but I only got started in them because I wanted to raise chocolates (which weren't added in the late 20th century). Now I mainly raise blacks & blues, but if it weren't for chocolates, there'd be one less Himalayan breeder.

What does bother me though is Czech frosties trying to be a "cylindrical" breed. Cylindrical means snakey, and fine boned, along with being cylinder-like. Unless they want to change their standard to fit that, they shouldn't be able to screw over the actual representation of cylindrical, which Himalayans have worked so hard to perfect. They're compact rabbits - no matter how hard they want to be "special", they are thick boned, meaty compact rabbits, even if they don't have a round topline.
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Re: I Hate New Colors in Heritage Breeds!!!

Post Number:#3  Unread postby Dood » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:53 am


I can understand your point of view and would of agreed with it a few years ago but not now.

When I first thought about breeding rabbits, I was all for preserving a breed but then I learned that rabbit pedigrees are not like dog or horse or cat pedigrees AT ALL and each individual rabbit is judged solely on looks and even a meat mutt could be shown if it matched the SOP of a breed.

I do love my pedigreed American Chinchillas but my first trio did not match the SOP except in fur and colour ;) for my second pair I selected a proven doe with 3 legs and a young buck from a winning show bloodline, unfortunately they introduced poor temperaments, low fertility and the REW and non-extension gene :shock:

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I actually like the idea of a "cylindrical" meat breed :) and remember, it is not trying to look like a 10lb Himi, but is a different type of cylinder - just like Brittania Petite and Tan and English Spot and Belgian Hare are all "racy" but have quite different outlines due to their specific SOP

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Re: I Hate New Colors in Heritage Breeds!!!

Post Number:#4  Unread postby Random Rabbit » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:49 pm


I may be incorrect...but..... in Europe where some of the newer breeds (to the US) were developed... they are posed Up... not quite as high as the Britannia Petites or English Spots... but up with head held high.... The Czech Frosty is shown like that over there... as are the Blanc de Hotot... Far more pleasing silhouette that the hind-end crammed to the front feet pose of US commercial rabbits.
I think it is referred to as "Cylindrical" in that a Round basketball profile is Not wanted.
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Re: I Hate New Colors in Heritage Breeds!!!

Post Number:#5  Unread postby SableSteel » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:27 pm


The Czech frosty is more like a compact with a European pose. It is not cylindrical - first of all, cylindricals should be long and narrow to emphasize their cylindrical-ness, which frosties aren't. Also, many, many books and rabbit references refer to cylindrical as snakey and fine boned - frosties would want to redefine this, even after Himalayans have managed to preserve that correct cylindrical profile for over a hundred years. Over a hundred years keeping up this cylindrical type, and now frosties want to redefine what cylindrical is. The standards committee has final say in what body type they are - I'm hoping the standards committee makes the right decision. If something wants to be cylindrical, it should at least fit the general appearance of cylindrical rabbit - they should all look fairly like Himalayans in type - without having to rewrite the definition of a cylindrical rabbit to fit them. If they're really refuse to be compact, then they should try to make their own body type, though I doubt the standards committee would go for that.

To me, this seems like adding a netherland dwarf to the full arch type - sure they have a quarter circle arch to their back, but they're obviously not full arch.
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Re: I Hate New Colors in Heritage Breeds!!!

Post Number:#6  Unread postby akane » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:46 am


If we never experimented and moved away from the original look of a rabbit we would have one breed in one color. How do you think your heritage breeds came to be? They were bred from other breeds. Many were colors that popped up as "sports". For example American sable started showing up in chinchilla herds and then was selected for into a breed. The silver gene for your silver fox, argent breeds, etc... appeared back in the 1800s from of course other old breeds and was bred into existing breeds at the time and then refined until we had uniform silver colored rabbits. Sure many have mixed random things into breeds and ruined the ability to breed a consistent result (reason I gave up on creme d'argent with all their NZW mixed in the background) but that is an entirely different problem from taking an existing breed and breeding it to an unrecognized color you like. I was working with ermine and frosty versions of Netherland Dwarf before I got out of rabbits and I made silvered torts that were quite interested from some creme and champagne crosses. As I said if no one did this we would be sitting around with standard chestnut colored rabbits at all our shows and farms with no heritage breeds, no new breeds, no other colors... Just a single rabbit for a single purpose in a single size with a single color.
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