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How to stop a predator???

Keeping your rabbits safe from predatory animals, pests, and people.
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How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#1  Unread postby TheChad » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:17 am


I had two neighborhood dogs destroy two of my cages. They got my buck and one of my does. I have a two tier system with cages on the top and bottom. They crushed the cages on the bottom, but can't get to the ones on top.

I went and bought some latice to put up around the outside, but I am now second guessing it holding up. I am hoping to get it put on this weekend. Well last night I come home to find a pit bull mixed dog has crushed the bottom cages again. This time there was nothing in them. I had just reworked them and put them back. I tried to shew the dog off, but he stood his ground and growled. I have a two year old, so that is the end of this dog coming to visit.

So my question is how do I get rid of the dogs? Open to lethal and non lethal options. I tried a small cage trap, but I think it is too small and they keep tripping it. I don't want to spend money on another trap.

I have gone to the neighbor and talked to them. They own one of the dogs in the picture. They said "oh, that isn't our dog. He is inside." He was standing behind me as she said it. So they are no help. The other dog, I don't know where it is from, but it has tags. It is the aggressive one.

If I had time to sit all night with the cages, I would and then shot the dog. I don't have that kind of time.

So, any help is appreciated.
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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#2  Unread postby BeachBC » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:02 am


Going and talking to an irresponsible owner rarely does any good, but fines speak much louder...your best option would be to report them to animal control. It's illegal to let any animal roam at large, and if they are causing trouble/damage the owners will be warned, fined and hopefully have their animals seized. Next time you see the dogs loose, call animal control out to your house to pick the dogs up. If the one dog was truly being aggressive, they are trained how to properly handle him without anyone getting hurt.

Getting the dogs seized and re-homed is by far the best solution. I know all the damage is frustrating but remember you're dealing with bad/irresponsible owners here, not bad dogs. Dogs are born predators, some just have stronger instincts than others. The dog in your pictures looks to be a cur mix, not a pit bull. Curs are bred to hunt and it's what they live for.

Shooting the dogs should be a last resort. Killing someone's family member is never a good way to fix a problem, it just creates more tension.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#3  Unread postby SarniaTricia » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:17 am


The Chad
So sorry for your loss
you are correct in assuming that lattice work wood will not stop a dog that has found "caged food"
You may have to spring the $ and get a good and proper fence set up. (chain link)
You might be able to get some scrap chain link and rig it around the posts.

I would be highly concerned about those dogs and a 2 year old!
Personally, I'd spend a night and just get rid of them, the owners clearly do not care if they are removed permanently.
Alternatively, contact the authorities.
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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#4  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:24 pm


We have dog problems too... our own! :O What keeps our beavers out of the rabbit pens is a line of hotwire strung across the fence line. I say "beavers" because my female dog will chew through a wooden privacy fence and has done so previously. We have a large backyard and to hotwire the entire fencing area cost me a little less than $200. The lattice "MIGHT" work but it sure as hell wouldn't work with my girl alone, however the lattice would be enough of a visual deterrent if paired with something like hotwire. Seriously, the best investment for my fencing I've done and I will probably end up doing hotwire at all my properties in the future. The hotwire box itself is less than $100 and then it's just cheap wire and a few insulators.

Also, I may threaten the neighbors a bit more and say, "Well, if that's not your dog then you won't care when I protect my livestock by shooting the dog that comes onto my property? Excellent. Have a great day."

Whether or not you actually take lethal action is up to you, but the hovering threat of it may be enough to have the neighbors keep their dog contained? Worth a shot.
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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#5  Unread postby shazza » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:36 pm


we had a dog that came attack our rabbits (no losses thankfully, thanks to my very light sleeping,) and we cornered it behind the house and called animal control but was told they wouldn't come pick it up in the middle of the night, just during the day. so i wouldn't rely on them too much. depending on where you live you may need to file with animal control or the police to have them seize the dog. here it's animal control, but our animal control is kinda. not reliable at all and they will just straight up refuse to investigate complaints sometimes. there's been a legal investigation into them recently apparently because of it. worth a try to yours though, maybe they'll do better.

i would call animal control/the police, and sit outside with a shotgun that night, and if they show up take care of the dogs. if the dogs don't show up, the cops may come pick them up later, they may not. either way, i'm a firm believer that any animal, owned or not, no matter if i know WHO owns it, if it comes onto MY property and harms MY animals, it is dead. in texas it is legal to shoot any animal threatening or causing harm to your livestock, property, or family members.


when the dog came to attack my rabbits, i immediately grabbed the gun and ran outside. my husband took it from me and said maybe discharging a 20 gauge shotgun at 3am in a trailer park wasn't a good idea. we ended up not sleeping at all that night, trying to keep the dog from returning to finish what it started. animal control would not come despite me saying it was an incredibly aggressive dog that had charged both of us multiple times and had to be beaten off with a shovel. we weren't able to wake up any family members with quieter guns, so we ended up having to run the dog off. she returned the next three nights to try and attack the cages until someone finally managed to trap her live and take her away. we decided that next time a dog shows up to attack our rabbits, we would end the problem immediately and deal with the noise complaints from the gunshot. it just wasn't worth the sleepless nights and the risk of injury to my livestock.
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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#6  Unread postby TheChad » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:55 pm


We live outside the city limits and there are no laws concerning the killing of the animal if it is on my property per the deputy sheriff I spoke to the first time I had issues with these dogs.

I put a message on FB to try and see if anyone has a full size trap. I also left a message with animal control in my area. I doubt I hear anything back. They are open a couple days a week and most likely not a help.

2crazy fools- I all but told the guy and his wife that I was going to kill it and they said well its not our dog.

-- Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:55 am --

shazza wrote:we had a dog that came attack our rabbits (no losses thankfully, thanks to my very light sleeping,) and we cornered it behind the house and called animal control but was told they wouldn't come pick it up in the middle of the night, just during the day. so i wouldn't rely on them too much. depending on where you live you may need to file with animal control or the police to have them seize the dog. here it's animal control, but our animal control is kinda. not reliable at all and they will just straight up refuse to investigate complaints sometimes. there's been a legal investigation into them recently apparently because of it. worth a try to yours though, maybe they'll do better.

i would call animal control/the police, and sit outside with a shotgun that night, and if they show up take care of the dogs. if the dogs don't show up, the cops may come pick them up later, they may not. either way, i'm a firm believer that any animal, owned or not, no matter if i know WHO owns it, if it comes onto MY property and harms MY animals, it is dead. in texas it is legal to shoot any animal threatening or causing harm to your livestock, property, or family members.


when the dog came to attack my rabbits, i immediately grabbed the gun and ran outside. my husband took it from me and said maybe discharging a 20 gauge shotgun at 3am in a trailer park wasn't a good idea. we ended up not sleeping at all that night, trying to keep the dog from returning to finish what it started. animal control would not come despite me saying it was an incredibly aggressive dog that had charged both of us multiple times and had to be beaten off with a shovel. we weren't able to wake up any family members with quieter guns, so we ended up having to run the dog off. she returned the next three nights to try and attack the cages until someone finally managed to trap her live and take her away. we decided that next time a dog shows up to attack our rabbits, we would end the problem immediately and deal with the noise complaints from the gunshot. it just wasn't worth the sleepless nights and the risk of injury to my livestock.


Sounds about where I am. The only issue is the dog doesn't come every night from what I can tell. If I knew it was coming and when I would definitely take care of it.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#7  Unread postby Zass » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:45 pm


If you are in hearing range of the neighbor's houses, you might try firing a shot or two at the ground when you see the dogs next. Worst case scenario, it does nothing. Best case scenario, it gets a serious point across to the neighbors, without creating the bad blood of actually killing or wounding their animal.

If they ask, you can always say you were firing at a coyote that was harassing the rabbits...At least, you were pretty sure it was a yote...Hard to tell in the dark..

;)

Hopefully, they would get the hint and keep their dogs penned.

-- Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:34 pm --

Also, for an easy-to-carry solution for self defense, pepper spray is horrible(arguably worse than a bullet to a dog.) It would be effective in repelling them, and would very likely teach them never to return.

I'd only use in in the case of an actual attack though, as the animal would return home in EXTREME distress, and may require veterinary care. Using it casually could result in unwanted lawsuits, and it would definitely make bad blood.
I think SSS carries less legal liability.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#8  Unread postby MaggieJ » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:36 pm


How about a paint-ball gun? It would be pretty hard for your neighbours to deny ownership if the dog was sporting a pretty splotch of paint. I don't know... may be a bad idea. I've never used such a thing and don't know how much damage it might do to the dog. (Less than a bullet though.)

Personally, I'd likely go SSS if I had the means and could get away with it. I shudder to think of an encounter between the aggressive dog and a small child. A two-year-old might not be out alone, but they don't stay two and sooner or later your child will want to play outside a lot.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#9  Unread postby akane » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:52 pm


Only threaten shooting if it's legal and I would just say you shoot dogs that threaten your animals and that it's legal rather than implying it will be there dog. That could be reported as something. You gotta watch the loopholes. Paintball guns leave a nice mark. In some places there might be a mild concern of someone claiming animal abuse even if it's legal to shoot them since you purposefully injured a dog with a paintball gun. Again loopholes can make things go weird like that. Pepper spray is allowed but creative means often get you in more trouble for stupid reasons so you have to judge the situation and your local area. I can say it stings bad enough not much comes back including wildlife. There's a few raccoons who didn't fit in the largest coon trap I could get that were blue for awhile since I have no training with a real gun. Hot wire is pretty good as a deterent and I know a guy who just put his low sheep fencing permanently on posts and rolls the whole thing up to move around as needed with his sheep. Only thing my akita will not even debate finding a way across. Not that she harms livestock.

To trap it you'll need a coyote trap and they were just too expensive and hard to get without freight shipping to setup on our property. Some leg traps may be allowed by law and you can always say "oops I caught a dog instead of a coon" but pretty much across the board that's considered inhumane by people except in extreme cases. If I really could not stop something, could not manage to shoot it (after learning how), could not get help from authorities, and really wanted to keep the prey animal they are after I might go there. Especially if the animal (domestic or wild) was aggressive enough to be a danger to humans but not otherwise. Many places are rather strict on laws of any trap besides live cage type so it's likely not even an option. If you see the dog and don't want to shoot it you can have a more custom built pen ready and hot dogs, especially warm, win over most domestic pets. I caught a chicken killer that way and lacking a microchip he never saw his owners again. When he calmed down he was no longer acting aggressive and did find a nice home with one of the police officers that came out to help me. SSS is probably difficult there if you have to explain the gun shot. If you could dispose of the body before anyone looks out at what happened you could claim you made a warning shot at some aggressive dog or.... maybe it was a coyote.... you know it's dark... but for an area with close neighbors it's probably best to just have a body to explain provided the law is on your side.
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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#10  Unread postby TheChad » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:38 am


Update on my situation. I finally got Animal control on the line. They are going to bring a cage out. I will bate it with dog food as they suggest. Also going to put some rabbit pellets in the back with a stuffed animal that I rub all over my rabbits to get their scent.

I asked what they would do with the dog. Basically, they take it to the pound and call the owner to come get it. That doesn't help me. He explained to me that as the land owner I have the right to defend myself and my property against any animal that comes on it. So, I have the legal right to trap and kill the dogs. The pit if caught is gone. He was aggressive. The other, may take a long ride. Neither will go back to the owner.

If I catch other dogs that cause no harm, they will be released. This gives me the best options to make sure I get the right animals.

-- Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:32 am --

akane wrote:Only threaten shooting if it's legal and I would just say you shoot dogs that threaten your animals and that it's legal rather than implying it will be there dog. That could be reported as something. You gotta watch the loopholes. Paintball guns leave a nice mark. In some places there might be a mild concern of someone claiming animal abuse even if it's legal to shoot them since you purposefully injured a dog with a paintball gun. Again loopholes can make things go weird like that. Pepper spray is allowed but creative means often get you in more trouble for stupid reasons so you have to judge the situation and your local area. I can say it stings bad enough not much comes back including wildlife. There's a few raccoons who didn't fit in the largest coon trap I could get that were blue for awhile since I have no training with a real gun. Hot wire is pretty good as a deterent and I know a guy who just put his low sheep fencing permanently on posts and rolls the whole thing up to move around as needed with his sheep. Only thing my akita will not even debate finding a way across. Not that she harms livestock.

To trap it you'll need a coyote trap and they were just too expensive and hard to get without freight shipping to setup on our property. Some leg traps may be allowed by law and you can always say "oops I caught a dog instead of a coon" but pretty much across the board that's considered inhumane by people except in extreme cases. If I really could not stop something, could not manage to shoot it (after learning how), could not get help from authorities, and really wanted to keep the prey animal they are after I might go there. Especially if the animal (domestic or wild) was aggressive enough to be a danger to humans but not otherwise. Many places are rather strict on laws of any trap besides live cage type so it's likely not even an option. If you see the dog and don't want to shoot it you can have a more custom built pen ready and hot dogs, especially warm, win over most domestic pets. I caught a chicken killer that way and lacking a microchip he never saw his owners again. When he calmed down he was no longer acting aggressive and did find a nice home with one of the police officers that came out to help me. SSS is probably difficult there if you have to explain the gun shot. If you could dispose of the body before anyone looks out at what happened you could claim you made a warning shot at some aggressive dog or.... maybe it was a coyote.... you know it's dark... but for an area with close neighbors it's probably best to just have a body to explain provided the law is on your side.


My worry with a hot wire would be my son getting on it. He loves to touch everything. Also, what does SSS mean? Sorry I guess I am a rookie here.

-- Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:35 am --

MaggieJ wrote:How about a paint-ball gun? It would be pretty hard for your neighbours to deny ownership if the dog was sporting a pretty splotch of paint. I don't know... may be a bad idea. I've never used such a thing and don't know how much damage it might do to the dog. (Less than a bullet though.)

Personally, I'd likely go SSS if I had the means and could get away with it. I shudder to think of an encounter between the aggressive dog and a small child. A two-year-old might not be out alone, but they don't stay two and sooner or later your child will want to play outside a lot.


I think a paintball gun would cause me more issues than it would help. I agree that would make them have to admit it was their dog. :lol:

It is my sons safety that has brought me to this point for sure. Otherwise, I would have just put up more barriers and let it be.

-- Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:38 am --

Zass wrote:If you are in hearing range of the neighbor's houses, you might try firing a shot or two at the ground when you see the dogs next. Worst case scenario, it does nothing. Best case scenario, it gets a serious point across to the neighbors, without creating the bad blood of actually killing or wounding their animal.

If they ask, you can always say you were firing at a coyote that was harassing the rabbits...At least, you were pretty sure it was a yote...Hard to tell in the dark..

;)

Hopefully, they would get the hint and keep their dogs penned.

-- Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:34 pm --

Also, for an easy-to-carry solution for self defense, pepper spray is horrible(arguably worse than a bullet to a dog.) It would be effective in repelling them, and would very likely teach them never to return.

I'd only use in in the case of an actual attack though, as the animal would return home in EXTREME distress, and may require veterinary care. Using it casually could result in unwanted lawsuits, and it would definitely make bad blood.
I think SSS carries less legal liability.


Where I live, a 22 going off wouldn't cause you to even look. I should be fine there.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#11  Unread postby MaggieJ » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:52 am


SSS stands for shoot, shovel and shut up.

The other, may take a long ride. Neither will go back to the owner.


I'm not quite certain what you mean by the above quote. I took it that you were going to take the dog and drop it off someplace remote. If so, I can't agree with that as a solution. The dog will either suffer (hunger, injury or whatever) or it may turn to harming other people's animals in its desperation. If it doesn't die en route, it will likely find its way home and you'll be right back where you started. Just my feelings on the subject; what you do is up to you.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#12  Unread postby TheChad » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:59 am


MaggieJ wrote:SSS stands for shoot, shovel and shut up.

The other, may take a long ride. Neither will go back to the owner.


I'm not quite certain what you mean by the above quote. I took it that you were going to take the dog and drop it off someplace remote. If so, I can't agree with that as a solution. The dog will either suffer (hunger, injury or whatever) or it may turn to harming other people's animals in its desperation. If it doesn't die en route, it will likely find its way home and you'll be right back where you started. Just my feelings on the subject; what you do is up to you.


That is a good point. I was referring to hauling it off. Will need to think about that more.

No shovel for me. I have garbage pickup! :D Big black garbage bag.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#13  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:09 pm


TheChad wrote:
My worry with a hot wire would be my son getting on it. He loves to touch everything. Also, what does SSS mean? Sorry I guess I am a rookie


I'm glad you asked about SSS :lol: I was also clueless.

Hotwire works on kids too.... they'll stay away from the fence line! Seriously though, it's a mild shock not something like the horse or cattle fence. Enough to make you jump when you back into it with the lawn mower (twice) or grab it with your hand forgetting it's plugged in... dingbat. What we use is pretty much a small animal deterrent and not enough to do damage besides surprise and tears. :cry:
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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#14  Unread postby alforddm » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:45 pm


We grew up with hot wire and all our our kids have. Ours is the horse fence, it only takes once and the kids learn not to touch it. They will cry of course but no permanent harm. It may sound harsh, but when the alternative is the possibility of their getting into the horse pasture and getting stepped on by a horse that thinks he's a big dog, the choice is clear (it does a good job keeping the horses in as well). They are not old enough to blame you either. Their anger is directed completely towards the fence.

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Re: How to stop a predator???

Post Number:#15  Unread postby akane » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:32 am


I got hit by a horse fence as a kid and it was just surprise that it went through the object I was holding which touched it and how much it hurt. I can't even say I cried though. You can screw up a lot with an electric fence as a kid and it's not really a big deal even when for large livestock. Although, there are stronger fences than for horses. The tape we switched to was originally designed for transportable elephant pens so they could enjoy the outdoors while performing but sadly the practice was mostly discontinued due to how much they killed the grass everywhere they went. As a teenager and early 20s I'd forget the fence tester sometimes and be too lazy to go get it. If you are lucky you have an insulated handle metal object you can watch for a spark but otherwise how else do you test a fence? :lol: My grandma did tell us never to touch a wire with your palm or front of your fingers. If it does not pulse correctly your muscles can get stuck contracted and you will keep getting shocked. Now it's near impossible for a fence to do that these days but still you always tap it with the back of your hand if you want to know if it's hot. Our horse fence could put you on the ground if you didn't pull your hand back right away and no one ever suffered any real harm. Darn thing got me in the head once. I just took a shower and was walking the fenceline when I saw a snake and followed it. I ducked the single wire cleanly but water + electricity... I saw stars and almost face planted the ground but even if I had there was enough momentum I would have continued past the wire first. I didn't even have a headache. Just another lesson what not to do around an electric fence.
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