HELP - Pregnant doe labouring hard or Pneumonia or other????

One of my does was scheduled to deliver as early as yesterday. I noticed her yesterday sitting in her nestbox (she had not built a nest) and she was sitting up, lifting her head up slowly and then back down. She did this repetatively. I checked her through the night as I thought she might be in labour. This morning it appeared that she had not moved, her condition the same, no kits and grunting at times. This afternoon still the same. I've taken her inside the house to keep her warm but am concerned that something serious is going on. One website suggested that she might have pneumonia. Any help would be very appreciated.

Thanks.

It does sound rather like a respiratory problem. Is her breathing wheezy or noisy? I'm sorry, I don't know what treatment would be best. I would imagine antibiotics might be needed. Hopefully someone with experience in treating rabbits will be able to advise you.

Her breathing is heavy and labourous but not wheezy. I found a site that has a mixture of antiboitics that can be resparated but I do not know where to find the antibiotics.

Can you move her at all? Not pick her up, I don't think, but see if it's perhaps a kit that is pressing the wrong way up into her lung area? That there is no wheezing indicates no congestion, I'd think.

what I would do...first, I'd try to listen really close to her lung area...I have a stethoscope, but a small glass..like a shot glass..turned upside down will work for amplification. If you hear congested breathing, it's antibiotics time. (farm store. Procaine penicillin or penicillin G I think they use for rabbits) If I didn't hear congestion, I'd check her vulva...see if there is any sign of swelling, distended, or even bleeding.

Most likely I'd take her to my vet...but I'm able to do that..good rabbit vet, and a husband who lets me throw money at the critters. Good Luck with her!

__________ Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:08 pm __________

what is the mixture of antibiotics? most farm stores will carry the antibiotics that aren't prescription only.<br /><br />__________ Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:10 pm __________<br /><br />sitting up, not moving, grunting...that does kind of sound like labor to me...if there's a kit stuck, she'll be trying to force and the problem will get worse. Check her backend to see if you can help at all. (provided you're not hearing that tell-tale wheezing from congestion)

Ann, would a calcium boost help, do you think?

I'm guessing (and I really am guessing) that it is a stuck kit or one that is too large to easily pass through the birth canal. I've heard both schools of thought on calcium helping with labor and not helping with labor. Giving a tums will not hurt her a bit, so I would give it a shot. If all else fails, I would possibly try lifting her up and setting her down in a different position. Many times a prey animal will not move if it is in pain. The movement could possibly move the kit enough that labor can be alleviated some. Is this a first time doe?

No, this is not her first litter. She has previously had two successful litters.

We will try the calcium. Would some sort of massage help?

maybe== if the kit is in a transverse position, rub gently the length of the body, to try to turn the kit 90 degrees, I would use both hands: front to rear on one side, rear to front on the other, so that if transverse, you keep nudging the kit in the same direction evey time.

Please do keep us posted. I wish I knew something that could help. I have a feeling there are plenty of others who would help if they could... you can see from the "views" count that a lot of people have read this, and it's only been a little over 4 hours.

Good luck with her! :clover:

Well...she made it through the night, no kits and still working and breathing hard. She is discharging a fluid ... not urine or blood. She seems terribly uncomfortable ... poor girl. I'll keep you posted.

ckeesman":1a9ajv8d said:

Well...she made it through the night, no kits and still working and breathing hard. She is discharging a fluid ... not urine or blood. She seems terribly uncomfortable ... poor girl. I'll keep you posted.

Click to expand...

If she is discharging fluid, the amniotic sac has broken-- plase help hr out a bit, youmay be able to feel, externally, the kits position...

I hope she makes it...I second massaging to change a kits position...

Well, she did not make it and died two hours ago. However, my wife and I noticed that her abdomen was moving ... possibly the kits inside her still alive. We performed a 'home' c-section on her and most of the kits were still alive and there were a lot of them. I have not had time to count them as we were hurriedly getting them out of the individual sacs, cutting their cords and cleaning them and putting them in the nest box covered with mom's fur. I am guessing that there must be at least 16 kits ... 14 alive and two stillborn or underdeveloped.

Now it comes to keeping as many as we can alive. One of our does kindled a litter two nights ago. We will try to have her adopt a few. Has anyone has experience or success with this? Another of our does is scheduled to kindle a litter as early as tonight. I hope she kindles at the early end of the timeframe.

Thanks to all who provided advice. We tried a calcium boost, massage, etc. Now what I need help on is 'adoption' and if anyone has had success raising kits by hand using a dropper, etc.

Raising newborn kits with a dropper is almost impossible, but fostering them to other does often gives very good results. Once the foster mom has kindled and tidied up, it is easy enough to slip some extras into her nest. By the time she goes back to it, they will all smell alike, so don't worry about that aspect.

How many kits does the doe that kindled two nights ago have? Since you have so many to place, I would give her enough to make up a dozen. I would choose the ones that look strongest since they will be competing with slightly older kits. When your other does kindle, give each some of the orphans. Usually fostering is quite effective.

If you are faced with leftovers, you will face some tough decisions. A few people have tried giving a doe different nest boxes of kits, basically playing musical kits, in hopes of keeping them all fed. I don't know how well that works. The other option is to humanely cull the weakest ones. The others have a better chance and should be given priority. If you need to keep the litters straight for pedigree or other reasons, a Sharpie marker can be used on the ear. Or just put a dab of food colour on the orphans and blot it dry before you foster them. It won't last forever but it will get you through the first few days.

I'm so sorry you lost your doe. I know you worked hard to save her and I admire you for acting quickly and decisively to save the kits by C-section. With a little luck :clover: :clover: :clover: you may be able to raise quite a few of them.

The does that kindled two nights ago had 7 kits. We had wanted to put the strongest 4 or 5 in with the litter but do not know when ... right away, later on this afternoon, ???. Any advice on this?

As for pedigree...the doe that kindled two nights ago is a NZ White and these kits are Reds ... so keeping them seperate for pedigree reasons will not be too difficult.

I would say right away, or at least as soon as convenient. They'll be warm there and can begin to merge with the other kits before momma comes to feed everybody.

You might want to start a new thread for the fostering questions. Up to you, but people who have experience with fostering will be more likely to see it and respond.

With that many, it might be easier to keep the nest boxes separate, and just do 'hot swaps, where one box is on top of the cage, and the other is in with the mother, most rabbits feed once a day, but if she gets mobbed when she goes to check on the babies after you 'mess' with them (switch the box) she might, also, two large litters, that will be VERY hard on the doe, you will need to supplement her feed etc.

I can't give you any more help, but just want to say I am totally amazed that you got all those kits out alive!! Good going! Did you find a stuck kit or one that was sideways?

As I am not a vet at all, I did not know what I would find. To my untrained eye, I did not find any stuck kit nor any sideways kit but it was hard to tell ... they were all packed in tightly. I did not see what I expected to see but rather the uterus was long like a 1 foot long sausage and both lobes were filled with kits ... perhaps this was the source of the problem???

5 of the kits have now found a home with another litter 2 days old ... they look so small besides the larger kits. Hopefully they will be welcomed in this new home. As for the others, my daughter is going to try to keep them alive until our other doe kindles.

Well PIFFLE I'm sorry you lost her. but...onward, eh?

You would appear to have to make a decision. You have 2 does with 7 each, and 14 possible fosters. You can put 4 newbies into each nest and hope the moms will adopt (if you can grab some of the does' fur, or the moist hay from under the kits..rub that on the new kits...or it seems that dabbing the doe's nose with vanilla will disguise the "new" smell) thus having a good chance to save 8;

or take your full nestbox of 14 and shuttle it between the 2 does for a feeding...maybe midday, and mid evening, which should be about middle of their normal feedings on their own kits.

Either way, I'd be sure to give the does extra everything, and I've been told that calf manna REALLY helps to up the milk production.

eta: if she was packed that full on both sides, then I bet you're right...just too many kits and there was no room for her to push anyone out..nothing was moving.

For the kits you rehomed with the other doe....at least once a day, take those out and flip the doe to give them an extra feeding. (or remove the older kits and hold the doe over the nest so the little ones can suckle. ) I've done both with little tiny guys and it works. Just a couple of feedings will do wonders for them..giving them a chance. Otherwise, the older ones will just kick them out of the way. Keep a close watch.