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Hand feeding newborn kits

Addressing the special needs of the breeding doe and her kits. Includes nutrition, gestation, nest boxes and materials, and tips to ensure survival of the young.
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#31  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:31 pm


akane wrote:
For rabbit sized nipples which can go on syringes and some bottles see the squirrel store. A google search will probably find it. Problem is the time to ship anything to you after you find the problem instead of being prepared ahead of time. It's unlikely they will break anything glass. They are far from that strength if it's not breaking in your hand and especially if you can drop it on the floor with no damage which usually you can with glass droppers.



Oh this is perfect! I didn't even think about looking for squirrel feeding bottles! This greatly helped (as well as the rest of the information you provided) thank you!! It even said not to use the bottles from the pet store which may be why I'm not finding them to work well either. I'm going to look for an oral feeding syringe this evening.

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I found this website (Orphaned Wildlife Care and it had quite a few good tidbits including how to make that hole on the end of the blind nipples. I've just been chopping with my skinning razor knife, lol.
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#32  Unread postby Homer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:24 pm


Those do work well...for awhile. The nipples don't last long once they start to grow a bit. They think they should eat them. :x

If you know a nurse ask them to get you some "piggybacks". They are used on I.V.s to attach a syringe to them to inject meds in the I.V. They have a rubber fitting on one end that slides right on a syringe and some I.V. tube. Cut it down to about 1 inch long and pitch the quick lock. There you go.

edit: the fingers are faster than the mind. :o
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#33  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:28 am


Quick update on the little wigglies.
We had another instance of (minor) bloating again the next day in most of the kits and I've determined it may be due to their core temp getting lowered from the formula not staying warm through the feedings. So I've started adding a hot/warm water bottle to one side of the box at the start of feeding, and then refreshing it after I've fed the last kit to help keep the nest area nice and warm when they come back with luke-warm bellies. I used to put warm/hot water in a pot, and then placing the bottle in the warm/hot water to get warmed, and then keeping it in there while I administer the formula with the dropper. Apparently the water is still cooling off too fast and by the 3rd kit it's pretty cool, so now I'm feeding them individually, heating back up the water, feeding another one, then heating back up the water, etc... Takes longer but we haven't seen bloat since this change.

I feel like we may be losing Scar-Belly (first one to get a name! Poor thing...) the little black kit that had a cut on his belly from momma's claws. He's still moving, and still alive, but yesterday and this morning he's just not interested in food, so I've been doing the drop-by-drop on his lips and then petting his head with my finger to get him to lick it off. He won't lick it off unless I pet him. :( It's not looking good. I probably fed him this way for a good hour last night and to be honest I was worried he'd be dead this morning. He's still alive! No change, still indifferent to the food though with patience I'm still getting some in. LIVE gosh dang it! :cry:
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#34  Unread postby Nymphadora » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:45 pm


2CrazyFools wrote:I feel like we may be losing Scar-Belly (first one to get a name! Poor thing...) the little black kit that had a cut on his belly from momma's claws. He's still moving, and still alive, but yesterday and this morning he's just not interested in food, so I've been doing the drop-by-drop on his lips and then petting his head with my finger to get him to lick it off. He won't lick it off unless I pet him. :( It's not looking good. I probably fed him this way for a good hour last night and to be honest I was worried he'd be dead this morning. He's still alive! No change, still indifferent to the food though with patience I'm still getting some in. LIVE gosh dang it! :cry:


I’m so sorry to hear about Scar-Belly not doing too well. At least it sounds like the other kits are doing alright, though, which is good. Honestly, I’d say it’s pretty fantastic that you’re getting such good results so far even with the minor bloat. I know a few breeders that don’t bother trying to hand feed kits, so if there’s no mama to foster them to, they’re usually culled. So go Crazy, go! We’re all rooting for the little wigglers to make it past weaning for you!
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#35  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:14 pm


I culled scar-belly a little bit ago. :weep: I went to do mid-day feeding and he was completely unresponsive to formula on his mouth, even with my head strokes. I opened up the towel I had him wrapped in for feeding and he just sort of laid there, if you couldn't see his breathing you'd have thought he was already dead. I took him outside into the sun and he started moving around a little so I thought, "may I'll try again?" So I got the formula out but still nothing... finally I realized his neck was craning hard backwards and I believe he was about to die which was why he was moving around in the first place. Not because he was hungry. I went ahead and culled the poor little guy, just about broke my heart man. I know I process and eat these guys in the end, but it's harder when you're spending so much time hand feeding these cuties and knowing that nothing much is going to come from their death at this point in their lives. I feel good about raising my own food, giving it a wonderful beginning of life, knowing kindness, exercise, good food, etc... and then having a near-painless death and contributing to our wellbeing in the form of food. Purpose and all that. After culling this little guy the only purpose he went towards was a doggy snack. :(

On a happier note, one of the tan/fawn/blondies has an eye peeking out! :D Trying to concentrate on the living, sweet little guys. :love:
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#36  Unread postby Nymphadora » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:26 pm


I'm so sorry for your loss. :cry:

You'll have to post some updated pictures of the remaining popples... if one's starting to open his little peepers, they must've grown a good bit since the last time we saw them!

You did the right thing, and I hope the heartache heals soon. I can't imagine how sad it must be to cull a little hand-fed babe. :encourage:

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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#37  Unread postby MaggieJ » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:29 pm


Ah, it's really hard, especially when you've worked so hard to give them a chance. :cry: Of course you feel bad . . . but I think you did the right thing for Scar-Belly.

I have to say, however, that I am in awe of how well you are doing with these kits! In most cases, kits that young that are deprived of a mother's milk are unlikely to survive more than a couple of days. Pat yourself on the back for doing an amazing job! :goodjob:

You would be doing a real service to your RT friends and rabbit-lovers everywhere if you could take notes as you go along: what formula you used, what worked, what needed tweaking, what you noticed along the way and adapted to the needs of these particular kits. If you, at some point, write it up, and post it -- with a link to this thread -- I can guarantee that I'll sticky it so we can easily find the information again when we need it.

:cheer1: :cheer2: :cheer1: :up: :bow: :clap: :clap2:
:mbounce: :greatjob: :mbounce:
Last edited by MaggieJ on Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#38  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:03 pm


Nymphadora wrote:You'll have to post some updated pictures of the remaining popples... if one's starting to open his little peepers, they must've grown a good bit since the last time we saw them!

You did the right thing, and I hope the heartache heals soon. I can't imagine how sad it must be to cull a little hand-fed babe. :encourage:


Thanks Nymph, the other babies sure helped that heartache dissipate in a timely manner, lol. They are just way too bloody cute! So, they do this thing where if I lean down to talk to them while they are in the towel or even breath on them they go nuts, trying to climb out of the towel or out of my hands onto my face. :lol: "Momma!" I don't think my breath smells that good, but thanks for the confidence booster kits.

I recorded a few feedings a couple days ago but have yet to edit them for upload, I'll do that today so y'all can giggle a bit at them. Adorable little crazies. Oh, I named another one... the biggest black baby is named Gaston, because he's loud and greedy! If I don't feed him fast enough (as I'm filling up the dropper again) he whines at me.

Here is a picture from yesterday, I haven't been able to get very many good ones recently but here's the blonde kit who is opening her eyes. Her eyes are both about 80% opened today but she keeps them closed mostly, only pops them open when I pick her up to feed and then closes them back once she's settled. I'm pretty sure she has no idea how to use them yet, but they are there! The others are getting bug-eyed so getting close too, Gaston has one starting to open at about 15-20% unglued, and the other blonde one is about 50% opened on both sides. Monday will be day 10 for them so a little ahead of schedule, but I think they were more developed in the womb than my previous litters were (who were pretty consistent at opening their eyes at day 11.) These guys seemed to get fur quicker as well.

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MaggieJ wrote:Ah, it's really hard, especially when you've worked so hard to give them a chance. :cry: Of course you feel bad . . . but I think you did the right thing for Scar-Belly.

I have to say, however, that I am in awe of how well you are doing with these kits! In most cases, kits that young that are deprived of a mother's milk are unlikely to survive more than a couple of days. Pat yourself on the back for doing an amazing job! :goodjob:

You would be doing a real service to your RT friends and rabbit-lovers everywhere if you could take notes as you go along: what formula you used, what worked, what needed tweaking, what you noticed along the way and adapted to the needs of these particular kits. If you, at some point, write it up, and post it -- with a link to this thread -- I can guarantee that I'll sticky it so we can easily find the information again when we need it.

:cheer1: :cheer2: :cheer1: :up: :bow: :clap: :clap2:
:mbounce: :greatjob: :mbounce:


Thanks Maggie! I couldn't have done this well without you guys providing wonderful support on the forum! I'll try and write something up that's concrete later.... you know, when they are weaned and survived, lol. I feel extremely confident about the remaining kits living though, they are growing, eyes opening, and very active little guys! Until then I'll try and keep this thread full of notes so that I can easily look back through it and find my conclusions. Oh, and I got the Bene-Bac in late Thursday so yesterday and today they've been on that instead of the goat antibiotic.




So one thing I tweaked is the frequency of feeding; I watched a youtube of a gentleman bottle feeding a kit and he said he only feeds them once a day because that's how often the mother feeds them, but I know from experience shelving litters that they get fed by MY does twice a day, morning and evening. I've heard a few does will only feed once a day but this does not seem to be consistent with my experience at all. So I started out feeding them formula as often as I would normally take the kits out for feeding from momma, and I think that was my FIRST mistake.

There is a BIG difference between mother's milk and this formula, and I shouldn't have overlooked it. When kits are getting milk from their mother, twice a day is more than plenty and the occasional once a day never hurt anyone. But this is NOT mother's milk and is not as compatible to their needs, going through them quicker and leaving less nutrients absorbed. In this case with formula they need more frequent feedings than they would have otherwise since this is not "quite" as good. I only started feeding them 3x a day once I noticed Scar-Belly fading out on me. I had noticed they were looking bonier, even with full bellies, but then I was also combatting bloat and didn't want to feed them too much. I felt a bit trapped, like, "I need to feed them more but if I do then they get bloat????"

So day 1-5 they were only getting fed 2x a day, morning and evening, and then on day 6 (Wednesday) when I initially noticed a decline in Scar-Belly did I up the amount of feeding times to 3x a day to hopefully get enough food in him to sustain his little life. I do wonder if I had started out 3x a day if he'd still be alive... but I'm not beating myself up over it. Life and learn.

Bottom line: I should have asked about how many times to feed them formula instead of just assuming it would be the same as I was used to. Formula milk =/= mother's milk.




Another thing I had briefly mentioned is the bloat and what I concluded caused it. At first I thought I overfed him, and he drank the formula too fast which caused it, but what I really think is he drank too much luke-warm/cool formula and lowered his body temp too much. Then being put back in with the rest of the kits, who had also drank the luke-warm/cool formula and their body temps were dropped as well, so the whole nest wasn't as warm as it should have been to help them digest. The next day when I experienced the bloat in most of the kits even when I was making SURE to slowly feed them and to not overfeed them did I realize what Maggie had warned me of previously in this topic:
MaggieJ wrote:Remember that kits can only digest milk or formula if they are warm to start with--they can't do it while still chilled. If they need two bottles, put one on one side of the box and the other at the top or bottom.

Now I have utilized her advice about the water bottles, and prior to starting feeding I have two small water bottles that I put hot water in and then place them at the bottom and the side of the nestbox, (they are not directly next to the kits, there is a blanket or towel layer in-between) and then I refresh those bottles with hot water when I am done with feeding. That way even if the formula has cooled off when they ingest it and they have a belly full of luke-warm liquid, they go into a nice and toasty nest box to sleep and digest their meals.

I have also taken to re-heating the water bath that the formula is sitting within after each individual kit feeding. Feed one, reheat water, feed one, reheat water, this way the formula never gets too cold on them. Since doing this we have had zero instance of bloat 8-) (and the kits love those water bottles! Cuddling up right in the corner of them, lol.)

Bottom line: Keep those babies warm! ... and listen to people who know more about rabbits than you do, lol.




Oh! One last thing... I have so many different types of bottles/nipples and syringes to feed these guys with and the best one for these kits? The dang glass dropper from Walmart. :roll: I tried the luer lock syringe (because I had one) and that was just way too messy. The luer slip syringe worked "okay" but it didn't fit into the mouth of my milk container, still probably my second favorite. I picked up some feeding syringes (curved tips) from my local vet but they are really too large for rabbits and the formula slides out too fast even with minor pressure, thankfully they were free! I expected to purchase them but they just gave them to me, so no loss there. The kitten bottle / nipple system was too unwieldy at this point, the long thin nipple attachment was the right size, but it was too long and bent away when the kit tried to grab it. The regular kitten nipples were a good size, but too large. I feel I will probably end up switching to this bottle and nipple once the kits are older and have larger mouthes. There are two glass droppers that come in a pack at Walmart (or CVS/Walgreens), one is a straight feed and the other is angled, I think I prefer the straight.... but both works just as well and my kits seems to do best on them though I am worried about the glass aspect of it. What if they break as the kit is feeding? What if the kit chips a tooth? But so far it's their (and my) favorite vehicle for formula.




Currently I am using the formula outlined by Homer in this thread but halving the recipe. (1/4th cup goats milk, half an egg yolk, 1/4th tsp corn syrup, 1/2tsp colostrum, 16th tsp probiotic)
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#39  Unread postby MaggieJ » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:22 pm


Excellent information, Crazy! (Hope you don't mind the shortened name!) The blonde kit looks real good!

You have a gift for observation and adapting what you see to what you need to do. :yes:
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#40  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:48 am


MaggieJ wrote:Excellent information, Crazy! (Hope you don't mind the shortened name!) The blonde kit looks real good!

You have a gift for observation and adapting what you see to what you need to do. :yes:

We're all a little bit Crazy ;D Shortly after registering with this username did I realize what my nickname would quickly become, lol.
Well thank you Maggie! I'm just thrilled they are doing so well at this point, especially after reading a statistics on how many kits live at this point when being formula fed... :shock:

Here's the youtube I mentioned, you've got a blonde kit for the first two minutes and then a black kit for the remaining. I think the black kit is Gaston, but I can't recall. You can see at the start of this video the blonde kit won't come out of the towel for me to feed so I tried to entice her with the scent of the milk, which didn't work, so then I lightly blew on her and out she popped! :lol:


-- Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:48 am --

Got a picture of the blonde with her eyes open for you Nymph. :love:
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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#41  Unread postby Sagebrush » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:08 am


Oh my gosh she is adorable!!!!! Looks like a very light chestnut.

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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#42  Unread postby Nymphadora » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:38 am


2CrazyFools wrote:
MaggieJ wrote:Hope you don't mind the shortened name!

We're all a little bit Crazy ;D Shortly after registering with this username did I realize what my nickname would quickly become, lol.

:D I think it's cool, and better crazy than a fool ;) :lol:

2CrazyFools wrote:Got a picture of the blonde with her eyes open for you Nymph.

She's so precious! :in_love:
And Sagebrush saying she looks like a very light chestnut got me thinking... Would it be possible for Blondie to be an amber (chocolate agouti)?

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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#43  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:09 pm


Guuuuuuys!! This little blondie is an explorer! Little wobbly at 11 days old but I'd be feeding one kit and look over to see this blondie wandering around on the sides! :o I'd put her back down in the nest thinking, "Oops! Got lost did you?" No. She's just wandering, lol, and was out again shortly so I grabbed the camera to get a short vid of it before she ducked back into the warm nest.

They grow up so fast! :cry:



Nymphadora wrote:
2CrazyFools wrote:
MaggieJ wrote:Hope you don't mind the shortened name!

We're all a little bit Crazy ;D Shortly after registering with this username did I realize what my nickname would quickly become, lol.

:D I think it's cool, and better crazy than a fool ;) :lol:


Haha! That's a good point.. I suppose it works if I really say something ignorant... :roll:

Nymphadora wrote:She's so precious! :in_love:
And Sagebrush saying she looks like a very light chestnut got me thinking... Would it be possible for Blondie to be an amber (chocolate agouti)?


I google-imaged amber and chocolate agouti and that just doesn't look like this right now, they are way too light. I'm currently thinking smutty fawn fits pretty well. Whatever they are, I'm adoring them! :oops:

Sagebrush wrote:Oh my gosh she is adorable!!!!! Looks like a very light chestnut.


Very light something! The other kits are definitely pitch black, no markings whatsoever and very dark.

Oh! I already have one of them a home! My multidimensional calculous professor and his wife wants one, and I couldn't think of a better home for it to go to so that's awesome! Also, I told him he can just have one as long as they give it back if they decide they no longer want it in the future. That way, worse case scenario, they keep it, FEED IT, and I get a much larger rabbit back that I didn't have to pay for :mrgreen: Win-win.




Just when you thought they surely couldn't get cuter.... and they do. :in_love:

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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#44  Unread postby Homer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:30 am


Congratulations Crazy! Looks like you have the touch for hand raising the little guys. :D Looks to me like it might be time to start increasing the amount of formula a bit more.

As for your "explorer". You ain't seen nothing yet. With their eyes opening they will be everywhere before you know it. :P It got to where I was using an extra carrier to place the feed ones in so I could keep it straight on who was feed and who wasn't. I also started keeping a flat sauce bowl (only about 1/2" deep) of water available. You'll be surprised how much they'll drink/play in it.

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Re: Hand feeding newborn kits

Post Number:#45  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:16 pm


Homer wrote:Looks to me like it might be time to start increasing the amount of formula a bit more.

They do look skinny don't they? I've thought that for awhile now but I feed them until they aren't interested in the dropper anymore, should I keep trying to feed them even after they've lost interest? I've been feeding them 3x a day and either in the evening or in the morning after round 1 I'll go back through them to "top them off" but I don't get much interest. Any thoughts on changing the formula? Maybe increasing the yolk (fat) content?

Homer wrote:I also started keeping a flat sauce bowl (only about 1/2" deep) of water available. You'll be surprised how much they'll drink/play in it.


At what point would you introduce this? I'd hate for them to accidentally "chill" themselves from wandering around in it.

I've never had them this apt to wandering so soon! I guess I never hand fed them before either even though I normally shelve the kits inside the house even with a mother outside, so they are more content to wait until I take the box outside and deposit them into the nestbox before they go crazy for momma? Maybe it's just this one... lol. The others might pop their heads out briefly but she's really wandering.

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