GI Slowdown - distress

I have a number (24 or so) of 8 week old bunnies. Fully weaned from moms for about 2 weeks now.
The switch to cooler weather has had serious effects on one of my cages of Grow-Outs.
(Of course it is the cage that all the does I am considering keeping)

Was late feeding the rabbits yesterday. Went in and I had one bunny dead. Two sitting hunched.
Bellies were round and squishy. BLOAT... I have successfully treated rabbits with Parsley, but....
Two hunched bunnies were separated to another pen with parsley, water and hay only.

Any suggestions?
Thanks

Bene-Bac powder on everything. ASAP or you'll lose them. It's a probiotic powder that will get their guts moving. Do not feed them greens or pellets right now. Use oatmeal on them and hay...all the hay they want.

Sounds like good advice to me, Homer.

Hope you can save them, Tricia. :good-luck:

It seems to me that someone (I think it was Ladysown, who is not so very far from your neck of the woods) had mentioned a connection between a sudden cold wet spell and GI distress in grow-outs. It was some time ago, but you might want to PM her for advice.

A. is Bene-Bac powder available in Canada?
B. is there a Canadian equivalent?

I'm hoping they will be ok till tomorrow.... They have HAY & Water .... no pellets and I only got them to eat one small piece of Parsley (I've had parsley work miracles) .... so really they only have the hay and water....
I'm currently at work until 4:30, then I have to run to my other job, get changed and ready to work again at 5:30 - 9:00.... The feed store will be closed by the time I get home....
I will hit the feed store in the AM and hope for the best.....

I wonder if a vet office would sell it to me if I called in???
(will investigate today... )

Thank you everyone.

-- Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:51 pm --

OK... so I found the Bene-Bac powder online.... will be here 5Dec
I am going to dose them up on oatmeal and hay only for the next little bit to see if I can get them to hold on till help arrives.

I googled bene bac for rabbits canada and PetSmart came up but I couldn't find bene bac on their website. You could try calling them if they have a store near you.

They did carry this product, which sounded interesting, but I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment, so just glanced at it.
http://www.petsmart.ca/small-pet/health ... %3Dfaceted

The longer you wait to start dealing with the bloat. Here are all kind of probiotics for rabbits available up North. "Google is your friend".
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=probiotic+supplements+in+canada+for+rabbits
:!: Best find something local to you, you don't have time to ship it in.

OK... so everyone was still alive this morning... I didn't get home from the 2nd job till 11:00pm... and the rabbits are at a farm 15 minutes from the house. (I was back there before 8AM thismorning, after picking up some supplies from a neighbour.)

A friend had a Probiotic/Prebiotic paste for horses.. I picked it and an electrolyte paste up this morning and dosed the two does up with a pea sized amount... found another kit bloated and dosed him too! I also found a recovery powder..... so all the rabbits will get a sprinkle of this on their food today after work. (only one job today)

the two does don't seem too bad today.... one nibbled a bit of hay, the other (she's a kicker) was drinking water when I left .... trying to wash away the taste of the stuff I force fed her, maybe....

I will be stopping in at PetSmart on my way to the Bunny Farm to see if I can find that stuff Maggie.. I did see it when shopping on Amazon for the Bene-Bac... about the same price with shipping... reviews seem to suggest it is more of a pet supplement for bunnies without hay (Like a hay cube), but willing to try it to see if it will help the bunnies who don't show symptoms.

-- Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:39 am --

Homer":28h9dk48 said:

The longer you wait to start dealing with the bloat. Here are all kind of probiotics for rabbits available up North. "Google is your friend".
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=probiotic+supplements+in+canada+for+rabbits
:!: Best find something local to you, you don't have time to ship it in.

Click to expand...

I know Homer... I wasn't giving up.... I just had all kinds of obstacles in my path... it always happens that way! As soon as I need to be at the bunny farm for some reason, work and sleep always seem in my way!! (I will be prepared for next time!!!... Cause you know there is a next time!)

Pets mart carries Bene-Bac in the cat med isle. At least here they do. I know what you mean, life has a way of getting in the way of things we want done.

Homer":2t01ch4x said:

Pets mart carries Bene-Bac in the cat med isle. At least here they do. I know what you mean, life has a way of getting in the way of things we want done.

Click to expand...

I love shopping at the farm stores and pet stores in the US .... there is SOOOOOOoooo many things that we just can't get in Canada... well, at least till the new antibiotic laws kick in.... then you are stuck like us... stupid laws, just make things harder for the small farm... big industrial animal growers already have Vets to come in to antibiotic their herds, now small guys have to pay extra when it's needed. (OK, off my soap box now)

Thanks Homer & Maggie... You're quick to offer suggestions and options... it's appreciated when dealing with something like this!

Patricia

weather plays havoc with bunny systems.

any of those does that get sick DO NOT KEEP THEM back as breeders, even if they get better. Be strict and straight-forward. Don't mess around with it.

I know you want to save them but realize this truth. Rabbits that bloat once will, inevitably bloat again.

it is often better for the buns if you cull quickly, rather then mess around with them.

in a pinch... the dry bene-bac they sell for kittens will work. It's not quite right for bunny tummies, but it's a pinch hitter right?

If it was summer time I'd say get some prickly lettuce into them ASAP. When I used to fight with bloat bunnies that was the ONE THING that saved them 9 times out of 10. But this time of year in Ontario....you are not going to find any. (but put that in your garden for next year).

I picked up those pressed hay tablettes at pet smart and powdered feed with oz bow critical care powder.

Bunnies are still alive tonight after work.
One doe appears to have recovered a bit, the other will get until tomorrow night to show improvements. Then I will cull her.

I have two bucks that are looking punky. Both of those have been dosed and we will see if they need to be culled too tomorrow.

I'm not happy, but I get it....

I need to figure out what prickly lettuce is... lol
Does it have another name?

Thanks again <br /><br /> -- Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:07 pm -- <br /><br /> Found the prickley lettuce... I know that weed!! I think it's in my jungle out back!

Sorry your buns are having such a rough time, Tricia.

It's good news, though, that you have a "jungle" out back . . . It's likely crammed with good weeds for your natural feeding and also for medicinal use. If you have spare time over the winter, you might want to do image searches for the weeds on the Safe Plants list. Use the Latin names for searches because common names are often regional and inaccurate. One of the nice things about natural feeding is that the rabbits raised on it very, very rarely have GI issues. (At least, mine did not.) Many of the common weeds and other forages have medicinal qualities that I believe help head off a variety of problems.

there are two weeds that are quite similar to each other.... prickly lettuce and I don't know the name of the other...but they are VERY similar... but the one at certain times of the year they don't really like, you get to know them by working with them.

Thistles are excellent plants for rabbits in digestive upset all round. I am not sure what it is...but it helps them. Not so good for the handler.... unless you have good gloves. But thistles..fresh...good stuff. My hubby despairs because I keep letting them grow.

I lost one doe overnight and the other doesn't look like it will make it.
I have two young bucks that I will need to cull tonight.

All the 10week old bunnies have slowed down on pellet consumption (that worries me) They are eating all the hay I have put in for them every day, so I'm hoping they just like the hay better.

All the pellets are dusted with OxBow Critical Care powder, so I am hoping it will work similarly to Bene-Bac.
https://www.amazon.ca/OXBOW-Critical-Ca ... B0021WRJFE

The bloated bunnies have all been treated with probiotics.
Nothing more I can do.


On a more positive note; Of the does I was considering keeping, I am down to 5, so the decision will be easier. :?

I've not had near as good luck with Critical Care as I have Bene-Bac. I guess that's what makes this place great, we don't always have to agree on process.

:idea: If they still show signs of bloat you could always try adding Simethicone drops to their treatment.

Homer":2qx4mt7x said:

I've not had near as good luck with Critical Care as I have Bene-Bac. I guess that's what makes this place great, we don't always have to agree on process.

:idea: If they still show signs of bloat you could always try adding Simethicone drops to their treatment.

Click to expand...

My Bene-Bac is on it's way... the PetSmart didn't have it.
My friend did have Critical Care, so I am using it. (I figured it was better than nothing)
I'm thinking an electrolyte treatment for all. I did give the bunnies that appear to be healthy still a small cup of Cheeks(sp?) I was told that would help get their guts moving with the powder.

I have no idea what Simethicone drops are... but I'll google it.....

I have done a lot of reading on the illness forum. I think if I cull the seriously bloated and get the rest to keep eating..... and dose with Critical Care until my Bene-Bac comes in ..... I will likely be able to save the majority of the bunnies.

-- Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:47 am --

Getting some Simethicone drops for the water bottles tonight.

Thanks Homer

-- Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:28 pm --

SarniaTricia":2qx4mt7x said:

Homer":2qx4mt7x said:

I've not had near as good luck with Critical Care as I have Bene-Bac. I guess that's what makes this place great, we don't always have to agree on process.

:idea: If they still show signs of bloat you could always try adding Simethicone drops to their treatment.

Click to expand...

Bene-Bac is on it's way... the PetSmart didn't have it.
My friend did have Critical Care, so I am using it. (I figured it was better than nothing)
I'm thinking an electrolyte treatment for all. I did give the bunnies that appear to be healthy still a small cup of Cheeks(sp?) I was told that would help get their guts moving with the powder.

I have no idea what Simethicone drops are... but I'll google it.....

I have done a lot of reading on the illness forum. I think if I cull the seriously bloated and get the rest to keep eating..... and dose with Critical Care until my Bene-Bac comes in ..... I will likely be able to save the majority of the bunnies.

-- Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:47 am --

Getting some Simethicone drops for the water bottles tonight.

Thanks Homer

Click to expand...

<br /><br /> -- Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:51 am -- <br /><br /> I just want to let y'all know that I didn't have any more deaths!!!
Potty doe seems to be recovering. (I gave her a water dish this morning instead of bottle only.... she was thrilled!)
The bucks that seemed effected appear back to normal and were all eating hay normally this morning.

I got looking and the majority of the does effected were from the same litter... and looking at my records, it appears I might have made a mistake that has caused this:
That litter was a week younger than the other 3. I separated them all from their mom's at the same time. It's possible that that younger litter wasn't ready to be taken from mom.... :bash: Maybe all this is because the little critters weren't fully setup(weaned) and ready to leave?

Damn I wish I had paid closer attention!! (feeling stupid!) :cry_baby:

Don't beat yourself up about it. We can learn so much from our mistakes if we're willing to recognize them as such and figure out what to differently next time. Good for you for looking carefully at what was happening and realizing what might have been the problem.
Our second year of rabbit raising, the first doe we bred that we'd kept from the previous year lost all of her first litter and 7 of 11 from her second. The other 2 young does did fine. After culling the failed doe, we realized that she didn't have a salt/mineral block in her cage. Don't know how we messed up--we know they need that since they don't get pellets. The other does had theirs and did fine. Will never know if the first doe would have been successful if we hadn't made that error or if she just wasn't a good mother. But we've been pretty careful ever since to make sure every cage has a chunk of salt.

I separated them all from their mom's at the same time. It's possible that that younger litter wasn't ready to be taken from mom....

Click to expand...

I doubt if they were to young but...Something for you to ponder. When I wean I take two the first day and one every other day until I get them all. This lets mom slow down more on milk production if she's still producing rather than a blunt stop in feeding. I've never had a case of mastitis in my herds...knock on wood...Depending on how and what your were feeding they probably weren't ready for a full on pellet diet.

Gobble till ya wobble!

Going back to your original post, I couldn't find where the cages are located.
In a building, or outside. If they're outside, consider the fact that a draft may
well be a portion of your problem. Take the steps necessary to remedy the problem.

BTW: My herd receives no chemical support... none whatsoever.

grumpy.

grumpy":3hvn8e2c said:

Going back to your original post, I couldn't find where the cages are located.
In a building, or outside. If they're outside, consider the fact that a draft may
well be a portion of your problem. Take the steps necessary to remedy the problem.

BTW: My herd receives no chemical support... none whatsoever.

grumpy.

Click to expand...

My rabbits are in a horse barn, but the big door is open a lot.... especially during morning clean-out.
It is common for the owner of the farm to leave the door open all day if the weather is nice.
The stall they are at is on the end right beside the big door.... (I'll try and get a photo tomorrow)

I will see if I can mount a plastic window along the door side of the stall... might help with the drafts when the door is open.

What ever it is ... seems to have passed... Lost 2 "keeper" does and a meat buck... I have one doe on the mend and a meat buck on the mend.

I did discuss this with a rabbit breeder at a show this weekend... she said that I may have been feeding the kits "too rich" for the change in season.... (Alfalfa hay and free feed 18% pellets)
She suggested a first cut or timothy hay and limited amount of pellets for kits weaned for the first month after they leave mom. I can easily get the first cut hay... It's the nice green alfalfa that I had troubles getting. (my does love the alfalfa hay)

Thank you everyone!!
I am making adjustments and learning as I go.