Fall/Winter gardening... and other questions...

So we're just barely into summer, but finally seeing a functioning garden - on my own property! :lol: - has me excited for the possibilities! I am wondering what I need to do to start prepping for a fall, and maybe even a winter garden? I would like to at least get some greens going year round and figure I can make a simple hoop house from cattle panels and cover it in plastic, right? Then next year I can switch out the plastic for shade cloth and maybe extend them into summer a little longer? I do have a small green house, maybe 3x3? I admit, I don't exactly know what to do with it I originally thought seed starting when I first picked it up (I couldn't refuse the $25 asking price), but don't I need heat for that?

I don't know the logistics of it all. I am sure it's not that complicated, but having never done it before, I need to start from square 1. For my regular beds, do I wait until everything else has fizzeld out, then tear it out and plant a cover crop? Or should I use them for some greens first? Then come spring, you chop it down, right? It's a series of small raised beds so I can't till it in like I see so many say to do so I figured I could just layer it, right?

Up until this year I always dreamed of gardening, but never could actually *grow* anything... or if I did, because of the craziness that was life with preschoolers, toddlers, and babies (at the same time) it was quickly neglected to heat, drought and of course, weeds. Now that I am seeing what I actually can accomplish, I am SO EXCITED! MORE MORE MORE! :lol: I have an area out in front of the house I want to disc up and get prepped for next year... maybe eventually I can turn it into a small community garden? I know we are surrounded by poverty, I would love to have a stand offering free fresh veggies to those who would like them. DH said our whole yard used to be one huge garden with nearly an acre of row after row.

So many ideas! Just thinking "out loud" (or I guess through my keyboard)...

kale , spinach, and lettuce do well in hoop house in fall and winter here.

heritage":rc5opbde said:

I don't know the logistics of it all. I am sure it's not that complicated, but having never done it before, I need to start from square 1. For my regular beds, do I wait until everything else has fizzeld out, then tear it out and plant a cover crop? Or should I use them for some greens first? Then come spring, you chop it down, right? It's a series of small raised beds so I can't till it in like I see so many say to do so I figured I could just layer it, right?.

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Gardens are like rabbits in that there are many ways to grow them, much depends on your location, and everyone has there own goals and preferences. We have permanent beds and paths and for several years have not been doing any tilling. There is an advantage to removing all the plant material to prevent diseases in rotting vegetation. There is also an advantage to disturbing the soil less and leaving roots which attract/sustain earthworms. We plant cover crops that will die over the winter and then can transplant in seedlings with just a small hole cut out of the mat the cover crop left and it acts as a mulch. (While they are growing, cover crops also supplement the rabbit feed as they can be cut several times) We also have a greenhouse/sunroom built onto the barn in which we live. We grow kale, chard, tatsoi, and lettuce in it through the winter (also wheat fodder for the rabbits) and start our seedlings in it in the spring. It opens into the workshop so it gets enough heat in winter and on sunny days provides extra heat. I'm so thankful to have it.
Congratulations on your gardening success this year! My advice would be to expand slowly. I alway say a smaller garden well tended is better than a bigger one neglected

So for winter greens, given that most of the time our weather is pretty mild (some dips below freezing, but not usually prolonged... the last two winters have seen brief single digits, but that's unusual), can I get away without supplemental heat? I didn't know if tubs of water covered in black plastic would heat up enough during the day to keep them warm at night? Or something like cinder blocks? It seems like I have read something along those lines at some point in time...

My landscaper friend gave me the advice to start slow... trying to keep that in mind. I do hope to expand a little each year... we'll see how it goes. And cold weather gardening will be totally new and a big step in the right direction I think...

Hi Heritage, welcome to the slippery slope of catering to our buns

I started out with the slow-but-sure approach to gardening while dealing with a bermuda grass lawn ... and for those who don't know, bermuda is a beast to kill :x My suggestion for your garden expansion would be to solarize the area under black or clear plastic - the 6 mil contractors' grade is best and results in a no-till garden. Simply spread the plastic over the area you want to garden in next year and anchor the edges very well!!! Boards and bricks work great! The heat of the sun will kill all seeds and other growing things.

Then, in the winter, if you can, raid your neighbors for their fall leaves ... they will be bagged for your convenience :lol: I find a sunday morning drive is a great time to find them stacked at the curb. Also, if you bag your own grass clippings, QUIT THAT RIGHT NOW!!!! That is what you should be using for mulch even in your raised beds and it is basically lasagna gardening in action Anyway, spread the leaves over every inch of garden and make it a very thick layer ... 8-10 inches! Then, spread lawn clippings over the top of that and water it in to form a sealing matt of the clippings to keep the leaves from blowing away. Next spring, you will have leaf mold and composting grass clippings which will bring the micro flora and fauna back to the solarized new garden area. This will improve the tilth of your soil!

Now, for some inspiration from someone in your neck of the woods, https://www.facebook.com/hoopman.laszlo He started about 5 years ago and has an amazing tale of how he grew his garden and some of the mistakes he made along the way opcorn:

As for winter crops, carrots, onions, garlic, spinach, kale, brussels sprouts, leeks, lettuce, and broccoli will all do well in your fall/winter garden. You can also grow winter wheat as a green treat for the buns ... a couple of rows per rabbit and it can be harvested until late march if you want to produce your own seed for replanting the next fall (plant in september)

There are also other local weeds that you can harvest for your buns, too. In fact, now that I have rabbits, I find that I can tolerate a certain amount of weeds in my lawn cilantro, prickly lettuce, lamb's quarters, winter grass (cheat weed), henbit, and several other weeds I don't have the name for ... along with limbs and branches from several trees: native elm, willow, mulberry, apple, pear, etc all make great bunny forage.

Thanks for the ideas Ann Claire! I will look into the plastic. I read that it kills off everything, even the beneficial stuff, but using leaves and grass to add it back makes sense. This would be a larger area so I have no idea how much plastic would cost for it? I'll have to see. We live out in the country so no bagged grass clippings (or leaves) for me, but I do have a pile out in back from where I mowed a patch I had been letting grow and it kept bogging the mower down so I just pushed it all into one are and called it good :lol: . Our yard is more weeds than grass at this point... how much of that seed would survive if I used that for mulch? The clover and plantain I don't mine, it's the horse nettle I absolutely despise. I can get leaves from our church by the trailer load - lots of oaks and maples that rain down each fall. There is a blanket on the church grounds that's probably 3 ft. thick in some places from where they have built up over the years.

This is very helpful, we just bought a house and I want to start a small garden next spring. Ann Claire, if I cover the area with plastic now, will it be ready for the leaves and grass clippings by this fall? How long should we leave the plastic down. Thanks

Getting ready to go clean out the spring and summer stuff that's pretty well kaput (either from heat or bugs :evil: - hopefully the guineas will help with the latter next year!)... and have the fall/winter seeds pulled out for planning. I do want to get kale going ASAP so I can start using it in my juice! I got my juicer about the same time it got devoured by japanese beedles (again, the bugs :evil: ).

Heritage- spinach will also do well over the fall/winter.

For winter gardens,
-I have planted the kale, and carrots, -will wait till the end of the month to plant spinach, late cabbage is about 1/2 grown, lettuce is planted, garlic will be replanted starting in late September, and will be all in by November first [when they turn off our irrigation water ] Spinach , and kale can be harvested off and on all winter[when ever it is thawed out] most years...
I want to try planting some of the potatoes in the fall again-- even with some -20 F nights, the fall planted potatoes produced better than the spring planted potatoes... [fall planted potatoes were planted about 14 to 16 inches deep in raised beds] -- I think the fluffy dirt in the raised beds helped insulate them from freezing, [ I had just a few that did not grow ] . -[ varieties-- maris piper, red pontiac, purple majesty, and some landrace started from seed saving a few years ago]

heritage":ri6wjh2y said:

... Now that I am seeing what I actually can accomplish, I am SO EXCITED! MORE MORE MORE! ...

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You need to come to our house. You'll be able to practice you weed pulling techniques till ya can't stand anymore.

Homer":o4yf6s3p said:

heritage":o4yf6s3p said:

... Now that I am seeing what I actually can accomplish, I am SO EXCITED! MORE MORE MORE! ...

Click to expand...

You need to come to our house. You'll be able to practice you weed pulling techniques till ya can't stand anymore.

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Ha! That's exactly what I did yesterday! :lol: I was fixing supper, literally holding myself up on the counter b/c my legs were about to give out (combination of factors - workout before going outside, heat, and general physical issues). <br /><br /> __________ Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:16 pm __________ <br /><br /> Figures - after a bumper crop of kale this spring/summer, none of it will grow now! I think a mole came through and ate all the seeds :evil: (I guess that's possible??). Something left mounds in the dirt that seemed to zigzag rather evenly through those beds, anyway. Only saw one start to sprout. And I am 99% sure it's not a seed issue b/c I ordered all new packs of 3 different types - two of which grew beautifully this spring and other other started to grow in a bed by the house until something (I am guessing either a rabbit or chickens) wiped it out. I also have a rogue rabbit that evidently really likes bean tops. The ones tucked under the tomatoes (that have completely taken over now that we have had some rain and cooler temps) are doing OK though (the best I can tell). Poison Ivy is sprouting where there should be broccoli :roll: . Argh. I need to harvest some potatoes b/c I want to use that box (well, recycled shipping container) for my garlic. I do have some carrots coming up under the okra, and it looks like a few beets are popping up as well.

Contemplating just giving up on the fall garden idea and hoping for the best with a cover crop for the winter. I guess with winter peas we can harvest parts of those for salads (I do have a few lettuce sprouts popping up).

Put in Winter Wheat. It"s a great manure crop and easy to till in, in the spring.

heritage, what happened to the kale plants that were producing well earlier in the year? We just keep harvesting leaves and the plants just put out more. They do get a bit gangly, but they keep on producing new tender leaves. We started a few from seed to grow in the greenhouse soil boxes through the winter, but for now we get all we and the rabbits want from plants that started in the spring--and even a few that were set out this spring after growing through the winter inside. They just don't seem to quit if you don't let them go to seed.

Rainey":3rjokwa1 said:

heritage, what happened to the kale plants that were producing well earlier in the year? We just keep harvesting leaves and the plants just put out more. They do get a bit gangly, but they keep on producing new tender leaves. We started a few from seed to grow in the greenhouse soil boxes through the winter, but for now we get all we and the rabbits want from plants that started in the spring--and even a few that were set out this spring after growing through the winter inside. They just don't seem to quit if you don't let them go to seed.

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Really?? A lot of mine got eaten by bugs toward the end, but was so scraggly I just figured it was done for the year. I didn't see any new leaves on it though... I just pulled it all up :roll: . This was my first year with a truly successful garden so I have made some newbie mistakes along the way - add that one to the list :lol:

what variety of kale did you grow?

we have good luch with rainbow, red russian, and are staple crop is always toscano [dino-kale]

Blue Curled Scotch, Tronchuda, and Scarlet. The BCS and Tronchuda did beautifully this past year. The Scarlet was new, but it's the one that had actually started coming up by the house but then was eaten by something.

Wondering who plants new kale each year and who has it winter over.

We're experimenting with some new varieties this year--especially dino kale recommended by m4g. The photos were all taken this morning--some plants are getting pretty leggy but all still have good harvestable leaves.

Our rainbow , and red russian overwintered well also, [with about a foot of mulch] yellow cabbage collard [just another kale] was by far the hardiest of all.

I had no idea you could over winter kale :slap:

I will say, what I pulled up looked awful compared to what you have pics of...