Evil Pinworms strike....again

:furious: These pinworm are driving me craaaazy!!!! :evil: If you recall, I had this problem the same time last year....always in the dead of winter. Anyway, I've been suspicious of my buck having them for a while and have been giving him Grapefruit seed extract and trying to give him pumpkin seeds. None of my rabbits seem to like the pumpkin seeds...any suggestions?

Anyway, went to check on the bunnies, and noticed around 4 worms in his droppings. I poked at each worm, cutting them in half, and not one moved. So I'm assuming they are dead... Yay? :? Either that or they're unresponsive because it's 31 degrees F outside. Sigh. I just don't know what to do! I'm almost positive they are getting the worms from our sprinkler irrigation water, because I let them roam around in the grass during the summer. They really need the exercise so I don't want them to just be cooped up all year round in their off the ground hutches! I also don't want to have to be worrying about these pinworms all the time either.

So from what I gather, pinworms don't do much harm to the rabbit, correct? It's not just my buck though. I have a double decker hutch , and my wormy buck is on the top deck, with my HL buck underneath (they have wood flooring, but holes in the corners that the poop goes out.) so I'm pretty positive the HL has them as well. My concern is, I was planning on breeding January 1st. So this will most definitely be a problem. Unless, I deworm every month. If I plan on still letting them on the grass during spring and summer it really doesn't matter does it? So should I just go ahead and breed, and just deworm everybunny once a month or more?

This is so maddening, especially since it throws my whole breeding schedule off. I was planning on breeding the buck with worms to Petlover500's doe as well....I suppose that won't happen now. :'(

Suggestions? Thoughts?

In my experience, if they are coming out in the poop they have a pretty serious infestation and their body and coat condition is compromised

They really need the exercise so I don't want them to just be cooped up all year round in their off the ground hutches! I also don't want to have to be worrying about these pinworms all the time either.

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I'm afraid you're going to have to do one or the other

There are places in the US where we cannot have rabbits on the ground due to parasites.

You can be glad it's pinworms and not cocci. Hepatic Coccidiosis could have outright killed the adults or started wiping out your litters.
I know what people say, "Wild rabbits are on the ground and they are just fine right?"

In reality, no they are not. Wild rabbits die of disease and parasite infections too. In some areas of the US there are times of the year that wild rabbits are considered inedible to to their parasite load. Humid places seem to have it the worst.

A rabbit with worms will infect any soil they poop in. I wouldn't allow other rabbits to graze in the same area the wormy buck has been, unless you want routine worming with a strong chemical wormer as a herd maintenance procedure.

Perhaps there is a way to have their playtime on a surface that can be sterilized instead?

Pumpkin seeds do not kill pinworms, they are only said to paralyze the worms to allow an animal to expel them. The worms could still be hanging out alive wherever a treated animal has been going potty..

As for feeding the seeds, have you tried raw ones with the shell off? Or maybe salted roasted ones with the shell on at first. Mine really like the salty taste of those. I have no idea if the roasting process damages the natural wormer in there or not, but it might be good to help get them used to eating them. I feed the salty ones as a treat sometimes, and use the raw ones as medicine..

Dood":3arl4nkw said:

In my experience, if they are coming out in the poop they have a pretty serious infestation and their body and coat condition is compromised

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Well, I've had a MUCH worse infestation last year, and both rabbits who had it came out perfectly fine when dewormed.

Dood":3arl4nkw said:

They really need the exercise so I don't want them to just be cooped up all year round in their off the ground hutches! I also don't want to have to be worrying about these pinworms all the time either.

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I'm afraid you're going to have to do one or the other

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Yes, I understand, one or the other. *Sigh

Zass":3arl4nkw said:

Perhaps there is a way to have their playtime on a surface that can be sterilized instead?

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Any suggestions on sterilized play areas? I have other spaces without a worm problem, like indoors etc, but there isn't much room like my large back yard.

Zass":3arl4nkw said:

I wouldn't allow other rabbits to graze in the same area the wormy buck has been, unless you want routine worming with a strong chemical wormer as a herd maintenance procedure.

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Yes, I believe I must....aren't deworming solutions easily bought at feed stores? My problem would be more of knowing how much to give them.

Zass":3arl4nkw said:

Pumpkin seeds do not kill pinworms, they are only said to paralyze the worms to allow an animal to expel them. The worms could still be hanging out alive wherever a treated animal has been going potty..

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Really? Well, like I said, this wouldn't be a concern anyway, since they would be potentially bringing in new worms into their hutches each time I brought them in from playing on the grass, so as long as they stay flushed out of the rabbits system it should be alright, ya?

Zass":3arl4nkw said:

As for feeding the seeds, have you tried raw ones with the shell off? Or maybe salted roasted ones with the shell on at first. Mine really like the salty taste of those. I have no idea if the roasting process damages the natural wormer in there or not, but it might be good to help get them used to eating them. I feed the salty ones as a treat sometimes, and use the raw ones as medicine..

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Yes, they seem to be liking the shell off better, but I'll try salting them a little and see if that helps too, thanks. <br /><br /> -- Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:53 am -- <br /><br /> Oh, and I should also mention, I did a full body check up on all my rabbits Saturday, I believe it was, and they were all in the clear, even the buck under the rabbit who had worms. I've been closely examining both bucks droppings every day since I first discovered the worms and haven't found a trace of a worm since. I've continued to feed pumpkin seeds to both bucks over the last 5 days as well, and no sign of the worms! Yay!

Easy ears wrote

Yes, I believe I must....aren't deworming solutions easily bought at feed stores? My problem would be more of knowing how much to give them.

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Haven't had worm problem with rabbits but with our goats the problem with buying commercial wormers is that they lose effectiveness over time (the same way anti-biotics etc do) so you have to keep changing what one you use. We find it more helpful to feed various natural wormers. And maybe that's why our rabbits haven't had worms--that their forage includes plants that work for worming. Or maybe it's because the goats are on pasture and the rabbits have their food brought to them, are never on the ground.

In Nature I have noticed that wild rabbits eat plants that are natural wormers, like mowing off my onions, garlic, or chives, cleaning up some of the peach leaves in the fall, as well as eating sage brush. I suspect some of the other plants wild animals eat also expel worms.
As mentioned above, Rabbits that graze on the same areas over and over will pick up parasites in an increasing amount as time goes on.
All animals that graze [as well as ones that don't] have to be treated for worms on a regular schedule. That is just an unavoidable part of responsible animal husbandry. I feed my breed stock wormwood at least once a year, [to clean out worms ] and also feed garlic Chives just before the does due date, and again about the time the litter is coming out of the nest box. [I have a residual coccidiosis problem on this farm I now live on] -- sometime during mid winter when I do not breed, I also give each of my breeders an ivermectin shot [sub Q ].- mostly to clean up any external parasites that may exist.
I have had worming schedules for all animals I have raised, [and we humans need a worming schedule as well] Even when I raised pigs that never touched dirt, or were fed anything with dirt on it, from birth to slaughter, even though the sows were wormed prior to farrowing,-- I still had worms to contend with.
My point is-- your discovering the worms, is a motivation to have a parasite program, and as Dood mentioned above-- it could just indicate a more serious infection, -- I am confident that these parasites were there long before you noticed them.
People who raise rabbits all have parasite problems in their stock, but for the most part, they are unaware of them, so ignorance is bliss, as long as it lasts -- Parasites will be quietly robbing you in the form of feed costs, and the longevity of your breeders, as well as weakening the rabbit and it's immune system. This makes your stock more susceptible to infections of every type.

michaels4gardens":34wprcbn said:

My point is-- your discovering the worms, is a motivation to have a parasite program

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:up: I would like to go as natural as possible, but if I need to buy some my thoughts are fenbendazole/panacur since I have Dutch, and I've heard invermictin messes with the DT gene. So garlic chives deworm as well? I regularly give my herd GSE as dewormer about every 2 months anyway, but I have since added pumpkin seeds as well as the GSE and now am giving it once a month.

I'm just curious though...Zass said the pumpkin seeds only paralyze the worms, and a few of you were saying to use a strong dewormer. My question is, if I am continuously letting my rabbits on the grass and potentially bringing worms back to my hutches when I put the rabbits back, what's the point of getting a strong dewormer? Couldn't I just use the pumpkin seeds to expell the worms to keep them out of the rabbits system? Why do I need a strong dewormer that will keep killing the worms if I'm just going to be bringing more in every time I let the rabbits out?

michaels4gardens":34wprcbn said:

As mentioned above, Rabbits that graze on the same areas over and over will pick up parasites in an increasing amount as time goes on.

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This shouldn't be a problem as the grassy portion of my back yard is roughly a third of an acre.

I think all rabbits have worms, and other parasites, I do not worry with diagnosing for worms, I treat on a schedule, as a precaution to help insure they are "cleaned out" from time to time. - in truth... getting completely rid of parasites is a pipe-dream - you just need to periodically kill them back to prevent a serious infection from developing. and-- it does not matter how big your pasture is, infection is inevitable, it is only a matter of time.

Alrighty, I'm ready to begin the search for a strong dewormer. I'm thinking Panacur? Would I be able to find this at a feed store?
I have DT and HL's. I'm getting a rabbit scale soon so I can weigh them, but how much do I give them once I find out their weight? <br /><br /> -- Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:33 pm -- <br /><br /> Is panacur okay to give to a pregnant doe? Or a nursing doe?

Panacur Rabbit 18.75% Oral Paste Data Sheet

Presentation
Syringes containing 5 g of an 18.75% oral paste formulation of fenbendazole as a ready to administer oral anthelmintic and anti-protozoal for domestic rabbits. 1 g contains 0.187 g active ingredient fenbendazole.

Uses
A broad spectrum anthelmintic as an aid in the control and treatment of Encephalitozoon cuniculi (E.cuniculi) and intestinal worms in domestic rabbits.
Dosageand administration
Panacur Rabbit should be administered orally by squeezing the paste from the syringe into the side of the mouth.

Preventative regime
Administer 1 syringe graduation per 2.5 kg bodyweight (20 mg/kg fenbendazole) daily for 9 consecutive days.
Panacur Rabbit Syringe graduation diagram 464x256
Routine dosing of rabbits is recommended 2-4 times yearly.
Dosing should also be considered during periods of higher risk, such as when the rabbit is acquired, prior to mating and when mixing with other rabbits.

Treatment regime
For rabbits with clinical signs associated with E.cuniculi a treatment course of 20 mg/kg
(1 syringe graduation per 2.5 kg bodyweight) daily for 28 days is recommended.
For single treatment course only.

Contra-indications and warnings, etc.
Direct contact with the skin should be kept to a minimum. Wash hands after use.
Assess bodyweight as accurately as possible before calculating the dosage.

For animal treatment only.
Keep out of reach AND SIGHT Of children.

Pharmaceutical precautions
Do not store above 25oC. Dispose of empty packaging and any remaining product in the household refuse.
Legal category
SAES (This veterinary medicine is marketed in accordance with the Small Animal Exemption Scheme.)
Package quantities
5 g syringes and packs of 10 x 5 g syringes.

Further information
Encephalitozoon cuniculi is an intracellular protozoan parasite which can cause a range of clinical signs including hind limb paresis, head tilt, collapse, urinary incontinence, cataract formation and lens-induced uveitis and death. Transmission is primarily via ingestion of spores shed in the urine contaminating food and/or water.

A 2006 UK study showed a seroprevalence of 52% in domestic rabbits indicating the widespread nature of the parasite.
Panacur Rabbit is an aid in the control of E. cuniculi and it is recommended that additional preventative measures are taken such as ensuring that food and water are placed appropriately to prevent urine contamination.
E. cuniculi has zoonotic potential and infection has been reported in immunosuppressed people.

Marketing authorisation number
V1356/93

JMHO,
I have seen panacur used in pregnant does with no observable negative effect , but- rabbits have such a short gestation period , there is no reason to treat a "pregnant" rabbit , unless it is showing EC symptoms... in the case of EC [wryneck] treatment should begin immediately to preserve the life of the Doe.

I don't worry about nursing does, for ivermectin, panacur, or other wormers. again ,,,, JMHO,

Okay, so I went to the store, and found Safe Guard for Goats/ Fenbenzadole. It is in liquid form though...not paste. :shock: I also found some Safe Guard 0.5% in pellet form...but how would I know how much to give? I can keep looking though...

@Micheals4gardens
Is this what you use?
http://www.amazon.com/Panacur-Rabbit-Wo ... B00J4RGF9K
I would have to be using this continuously... and frankly with four rabbits multiple times a year this is more than I would like to pay. Especially if pumpkin seeds would do the trick. I would like to flush out their systems with a stronger dewormer at least every couple months.

I don't personally use panacur , I use wormwood, and garlic chives, with a dose of SQ ivermectin at least once a year. [as mentioned above in post # 6] but- that is one of the products I am familiar with using on others rabbits.

michaels4gardens":50g6vied said:

I don't personally use panacur , I use wormwood, and garlic chives, with a dose of SQ ivermectin at least once a year. [as mentioned above in post # 6] but- that is one of the products I am familiar with using on others rabbits.

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Hmm, okay. I'd do the same, but ivermectin shouldn't be used for my rabbits.

Anyone else use panacur?? Can someone give tell me what they buy at the feed store? <br /><br /> -- Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:54 pm -- <br /><br /> Anyone? Wormer?

The active ingredient in panacur is "fenbendazole" so select a wormer with this ingredient

Dood":1fgvfqgz said:

The active ingredient in panacur is "fenbendazole" so select a wormer with this ingredient

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I found on guard for goats but there is a pellet form and I think a liquid form?? :shock:
If I feed that, how much should I give each rabbit? I have DT, ND and HL rabbits... <br /><br /> -- Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:18 am -- <br /><br /> Just found on the ARBA website that Piperazine is used for pinworm deworming... anyone use this?