Entire litter dying

I have a two week old litter of 8 that is having trouble. One died today, a second one is almost dead, and all but three seem sick. They are all covered in tiny bumps, some of the bumps have a slight scab on top but most seem to be something under the skin. Except for the almost dead one, they're all active and normal size but they feel like a dead kit when you pick them up. Not sure how to describe it because they're not totally limp, they just don't feel right. The ones that are looking sickly are starting to drop weight and their fur is all ruffed up. The one that's almost dead never opened it's eye, in fact it doesn't look like it even has eyes! Pretty sure I'm losing the whole litter, I have no clue what's going on...any ideas?

I'm not knowledgeable about Florida, but the bumps on the kits' skins makes me wonder if it could be some kind of insect bites. Do you have fire ants, for instance? Just a wild guess, so don't take it too seriously unless it sounds a chord for you.

I hope you have completely isolated the doe and kits and have put strict quarantine protocols in place. This should be done any time you are dealing with an unknown ailment, in order to protect your other rabbits.

Hope someone who knows your part of the country can give you better advice.

We don't really have fire ants around here, and the bumps are hard so I don't think it's insect bites. I'll try and get some pictures of them tonight. I haven't isolated them yet because I can't figure out where to put them...plus I don't have a movable cage big enough for mom and the babies. Also, the doe REALLY freaks out if I touch her so I'm a little concerned she'll quit feeding them if I move her. So, not real sure what to do about quarantine... <br /><br /> -- Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:59 am -- <br /><br />

MaggieJ":1j9z281h said:

I hope you have completely isolated the doe and kits and have put strict quarantine protocols in place. This should be done any time you are dealing with an unknown ailment, in order to protect your other rabbits.

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I managed to rig up a cage so that the doe and her litter can be inside...it's not a great setup, but will work for a few weeks. The doe has not moved an inch since I brought her in, but I guess she'll adjust soon enough.

This morning a few of the babies still have the bumps under their skin, but the rest now are covered in scabs where the bumps were. There is also some flaking, but no hair loss at all. It's all over their bodies, but super concentrated on their chests and front legs. Some of them have it on their eyes now. They're also continuing to waste away. The smallest one is cold and stiff like it's dead but still moves around some. It will only drink a tiny little bit of milk when we put it on the doe. It's like a skeleton now, looks pretty dehydrated. Has anyone dealt with anything like this before?

FUR mites?

Hmm, I could try dusting them all with DE just to make sure. They're not too young for that, are they?

The fact that it's starting under their skin and then breaking through kinda makes me think it's something viral, but I'm ready to try anything at this point. I hate seeing them all like this!

I just know someone (angora breeder) was talking about fur mites... and had scabby dandruff she was fighting...

I know when I had an issue with mites with chickens that they lost a lot of weight and went lethargic....

If you use DE... be careful about the dust... it can cause repertory distress..
(Definitely worth a try at this point!)

That doesn't look like fur mites to me, but rather like some sort of systemic infection. I would recommend taking the doe and litter to the vet, then treat the whole herd.

Also, fur mites will not kill kits still nursing. The kits get immunities from the doe's milk, so whatever they have has most likely come from the doe.

Good luck.

Those look to be small pustules to me. Almost like hives. Is there anything in the environment where you where keeping them that is new? Flowers blooming, trees dropping pollen? I am thinking that it is an environmental allergy.

Sagebrush":uc1k4h9f said:

Is there anything in the environment where you where keeping them that is new? Flowers blooming, trees dropping pollen?

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Yes, most of the people around here get really bad allergies this time of year from all the oak pollen...would that really be enough to kill them? And why just the one litter?

I did have a kit die last night from a different litter, but he hadn't seemed sick at all so I'm guessing it was from the sudden cold snap. He was by himself in the corner of the nest box instead of curled up with the others.

Those actually could be fire ants. Your in Florida so you probably do have them. They will def kill a litter and their bites look similar after they have crusted over a bit.

Alternatively, I would agree with some sort of systemic infection. Pasturella unfortunately can cause something like this. Some rabbits can be carriers without having symptoms themselves which could be the case with your doe. Is this her first litter?

alforddm":1428rbve said:

Is this her first litter?

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It's her second litter, first litter was just fine. Also second litter from the buck.

None from this litter were dead today, although some of them still look pretty sickly. The really crusty ones are pretty itchy and scratch all the time. Maybe I'll try giving the doe some immune boosting herbs like echinacea and see if that helps whatever is going on.

In that case, I would do a through search for fire ants to make sure you don't have them.

BeachBC, at risk of seeming pushy, I do think you should acquaint yourself with fire ants. I did a little poking around online and it appears anywhere in Florida is in their range. There are at least two species. You may not have had any locally in the past, but that does not mean they might not be there now.

I googled fire ant bites on rabbit kits and it happens--and can kill them. Here are a couple of links to threads on other sites (and a couple from RT as well) where people have had to deal with them.
http://www.raising-rabbits.com/rabbit-k ... -ants.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/thread ... ck.253451/
fire-ants-t7159-15.html
how-do-you-keep-fire-ants-out-of-your-colonies-t21343.html

Checking out the images for this search should help you to rule out or rule in fire ants as the culprit in your case.

I sincerely hope that they are not the cause! :good-luck:

The only thing I can say good for fire ants is that we no longer have ticks. Used to have to spray the horses and cows several times a year to keep them from getting eatten alive by ticks. Haven't had to do that in 20 years. Ticks move to slow and the fire ants eat them all. You only get ticks now in the deep woods. Fire ants don't seem to like heavy shade much.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, but these are definitely not fire ant bites. My family gets eaten up by those little terrors when we go out to Texas each year so I am quite familiar with their bites, but whatever is on these kits is nothing like that...acts and looks totally different. Plus I've seen absolutely no evidence of them out in my rabbit barn. And we seriously don't have any fire ants where we live now.

Oh, and you weren't being pushy at all MaggieJ, I really do appreciate everyone helping me brainstorm!

Ugh... fire ants... they need to go straight back to h*ll where they came from! :twisted:

As for the kits, let me see if I can find my old thread (ah, here it is! blisters-or-something-on-5-day-old-kit-t25863.html?hilit=blisters ) I culled the whole litter. They went from blisters, first thought was fire ants, but no sign of them anywhere near the hutches (but we do have them :evil: one of the few things in life that makes me want to cuss :lol: ), but then I heard a sneeze and a kit had a face full of white snot. Mama rabbit never showed obvious signs, but was never quite... right... so thankful for RT b/c I would likely have never realized WTHeck was going on and lost my entire herd!

Haven't noticed any of them sneezing, just scratching a lot now. I do have a different doe who started reverse sneezing (not sure if that's even a thing in the rabbit world?) yesterday and this morning it sounds more like a snore every time she inhales. Wondering if she's having a hard time breathing. Could just be that she got something up her nose that's irritating it though. Or it could be allergies...the person who sold me the herd said most of them were allergic to oak pollen and it is hay fever season now. Her nose is wet, but I'm not seeing any color and it's not thick at all.

I'm sorry, and I hate to be the first to say it but it really sounds like you have a pasturella infection in your herd. Given the kits symptoms, along with the doe, it sounds like the kits have systemic infections. There is a good chance they will start to die off at weaning when they no longer have the does antibodies in the milk. The breath troubles your hearing sound like pneumonia. Hold the doe's chest up to your ear and listen to her while she breaths. Isolate the kits and their dam and the doe that sounds like she is snoring and any other's that start to sneeze or show snot.

BeachBC":3vcvf6ol said:

Haven't noticed any of them sneezing, just scratching a lot now. I do have a different doe who started reverse sneezing (not sure if that's even a thing in the rabbit world?) yesterday and this morning it sounds more like a snore every time she inhales. Wondering if she's having a hard time breathing. Could just be that she got something up her nose that's irritating it though. Or it could be allergies...the person who sold me the herd said most of them were allergic to oak pollen and it is hay fever season now. Her nose is wet, but I'm not seeing any color and it's not thick at all.

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Mine didn't start sneezing until 5 weeks or so... the doe had had previous litters with the previous owner, but was eating her fur and weird stuff like that. I figured it was a nutrient deficiency so when she switched feed and started looking better I bred her - she never showed signs, but I wonder if the move triggered it or if she caught it before he sold her to me (again, pre-RT, I didn't fully understand the seriousness or severity when he told me that he had been dealing with "colds" in the rabbits over the winter) - I brought home another rabbit the same day as her that ended up sneezing white snot within 24 hours.

Yep, this morning the second doe (that was making the snoring noise) has a white nose and has begun sneezing...which is super disappointing because she is my only reliable foster mom in the whole herd. She's also super cute and has a sweet personality. Hate that she has to be culled. She currently has a less than week old litter plus some foster kits (from a first time mom) so I'm guessing I need to keep her at least until they are old enough to wean? Which brings up the whole quarantine issue...I really don't have anywhere to put them where they will be safe from predators. Plus, all 22 of my cages are attached in three solid units so I don't even have a cage to put them in if I could find somewhere safe. The first doe with her litter are in my bathroom right now (for lack of a better option) but I know the two does won't get along running loose together and I don't have another room I can put the second doe+litter in. :hmm:

Would four feet BELOW the other rabbits be enough distance? I have all my rabbits in hanging cages inside a predator proofed barn...I could let the doe and her litter run loose on the floor of the barn if that would be far enough away from the healthy rabbits. I know it's not ideal for the babies to have access to the other rabbits' droppings but I could make sure to keep it super clean down there for a while. I can't think of anything else to do.