ZachsRabbits
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What are the pros and cons of each?
English vs Velveteen Lops?
- Thread starter ZachsRabbits
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Pros
Amazing pet temperaments
Very cute
Cons
Don't do well in cage systems as they crave human interaction - they can be very destructive (tossing food, gnawing cage wire etc...)
Very large
Need 48x24 cages
Niche market
Not desirable for meat production
Ears are easily damaged (tearing, frost bite)
The velveteens, like all rex, are prone to sore hocks and the added weight and limited gene pool makes this more likely
Amazing pet temperaments
Very cute
Cons
Don't do well in cage systems as they crave human interaction - they can be very destructive (tossing food, gnawing cage wire etc...)
Very large
Need 48x24 cages
Niche market
Not desirable for meat production
Ears are easily damaged (tearing, frost bite)
The velveteens, like all rex, are prone to sore hocks and the added weight and limited gene pool makes this more likely
Prisma
Well-known member
When I got my first englishes, they were not in the best of shape as far as showing goes. Good bodies but their ears had taken a beating. Which was OK, I was just tickled to have found them here for sale at that time. Their ears where bothersome to them so some had become chewers, attention and care, no more problems. This is not always the case, some become chewers no matter what and will not stop. I highly suggest asking and looking at lots of pictures from the rabbitry and line you're interested in. RESEARCH on lines, health of lines, and durability of them is a big deal with these guys. It takes a long time and I wish it'd be some thing more people would do and even consider doing in other breeds as I'm sure it'd help curb some first year blues.
Does breed at 8 months or so, not before. Ears have to be 21" even on JRs (this is EL of course). There's tons of colors, but as Dood said, there's a niche market. Either you've got some people want and will pay, or you don't. Selling cheap 50 or 40 EL to any one with cash isn't going to get you any where with the breeder you purchase from if you paid 400 for a pair or some thing like that for example. Some breeders, especially the better ones, are STINGY with GOOD stock. Waiting lists are not uncommon and neither is not being able to get any juniors until at least 16 weeks of age when they have roughly reached their max ear length, they can gain a bit more with head development etc but won't be like the jr growth span.
Hands on is a must with these guys, bone quality is super important to avoid problems with spine and assure the rabbit is a good one. I purchased a few "cheap" ones, 75 to 80, that looked good in pictures...but once I got my hands on them were boney and thin...no good for breeding just pets or chow sadly. This is one breed I do not suggest buying from pictures alone unless you have no other choice and the breeder is a good (not just says but other people know or you see them listed with others without being asked type of good).
They do not deal well with sudden change and have been prone to GI upset more than any other breed I have had, even Holland Lops. I stopped treating and terminally culled early on so I stopped seeing it pop up as bad in my own breedings (VL and EL). It took 2 years with EL (now I'm sold out of them) and VL are still a work in progress (just got fresh stock 2 months ago as I had sold couldn't get relatives back/terminated others...seeing how she goes this time). I think this is one of those bad things with the limited gene pool that Dood is speaking of as well. There is just not enough "space" of good to weed out "bad" in some areas.
I never had any feet issues with either, but I was extremely picky on feet/bone/fur coverage and didn't get the what I could "just" afford really, I saved up. Even my firsts (good bodies, just ears had taken a knocking) were over $300 for a quad...they are not cheap, they are an investment. You buy low from some one who doesn't keep like you intent to keep, going to have a ton of problems. You don't want to get some that are cheaply bred and have a lot of issues...no thin bones no pigeon breasts cow hocks thin pads etc. There's going to be faults, but you don't want to start with ones with major body issues even if their ears and coats are great. I worked the other way, I think that's how I avoid and still avoiding with VL a mass of problems others have.
They are DEMANDING if you cannot let them out and play, don't bother. They will hurt themselves out of boredom. I know some people keep them out in the winter, and do fine...but they always got too cold here and ended up chewing so I keep even VL in. I no longer have EL though some day IF all this other stuff going on settles I may try again. I had 4x3" cages for my EL, 4x6" for my does with litters and kept a SMALL number. I DID have problem with hay guts at one point, they wanted to eat nothing but hay, get pot bellied, and then they'd be no shape for show's sake....judge in OH pointed out and asked me what I was feeding, as soon as he heard they were getting hay and unlimited food told to cut back to just hay a few times a week at most as they can be picky glutton eaters. After I did, no more hay bellies.
Does breed at 8 months or so, not before. Ears have to be 21" even on JRs (this is EL of course). There's tons of colors, but as Dood said, there's a niche market. Either you've got some people want and will pay, or you don't. Selling cheap 50 or 40 EL to any one with cash isn't going to get you any where with the breeder you purchase from if you paid 400 for a pair or some thing like that for example. Some breeders, especially the better ones, are STINGY with GOOD stock. Waiting lists are not uncommon and neither is not being able to get any juniors until at least 16 weeks of age when they have roughly reached their max ear length, they can gain a bit more with head development etc but won't be like the jr growth span.
Hands on is a must with these guys, bone quality is super important to avoid problems with spine and assure the rabbit is a good one. I purchased a few "cheap" ones, 75 to 80, that looked good in pictures...but once I got my hands on them were boney and thin...no good for breeding just pets or chow sadly. This is one breed I do not suggest buying from pictures alone unless you have no other choice and the breeder is a good (not just says but other people know or you see them listed with others without being asked type of good).
They do not deal well with sudden change and have been prone to GI upset more than any other breed I have had, even Holland Lops. I stopped treating and terminally culled early on so I stopped seeing it pop up as bad in my own breedings (VL and EL). It took 2 years with EL (now I'm sold out of them) and VL are still a work in progress (just got fresh stock 2 months ago as I had sold couldn't get relatives back/terminated others...seeing how she goes this time). I think this is one of those bad things with the limited gene pool that Dood is speaking of as well. There is just not enough "space" of good to weed out "bad" in some areas.
I never had any feet issues with either, but I was extremely picky on feet/bone/fur coverage and didn't get the what I could "just" afford really, I saved up. Even my firsts (good bodies, just ears had taken a knocking) were over $300 for a quad...they are not cheap, they are an investment. You buy low from some one who doesn't keep like you intent to keep, going to have a ton of problems. You don't want to get some that are cheaply bred and have a lot of issues...no thin bones no pigeon breasts cow hocks thin pads etc. There's going to be faults, but you don't want to start with ones with major body issues even if their ears and coats are great. I worked the other way, I think that's how I avoid and still avoiding with VL a mass of problems others have.
They are DEMANDING if you cannot let them out and play, don't bother. They will hurt themselves out of boredom. I know some people keep them out in the winter, and do fine...but they always got too cold here and ended up chewing so I keep even VL in. I no longer have EL though some day IF all this other stuff going on settles I may try again. I had 4x3" cages for my EL, 4x6" for my does with litters and kept a SMALL number. I DID have problem with hay guts at one point, they wanted to eat nothing but hay, get pot bellied, and then they'd be no shape for show's sake....judge in OH pointed out and asked me what I was feeding, as soon as he heard they were getting hay and unlimited food told to cut back to just hay a few times a week at most as they can be picky glutton eaters. After I did, no more hay bellies.
ZachsRabbits
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Which would suggest getting then?
Prisma
Well-known member
Its a personal choice, how much time and $$ do you want to invest? Do you want to show? Right now English Lops are ARBA accepted in several varieties (colors) but Velveteens are not they are still in a working phase. You cannot show them for any thing but exhibit purposes IF a show super allows and you bring the current working standard with you...it may be another 10 years before they are accepted, although I wish sooner. There is a ton of work going into them to get out inconsistency and problems...but because of quality control...well it is going to take longer. Do you have the space for EL? Do you have the food budget and care budget? Long term? Short term? I breed my VL at 6 months, so they do produce faster...but then they are just for me. I keep to the working standard (except I want tri and harlequins/mags) but know they won't be for "show" ARBA wise and that makes my market when I sell any smaller, but I don't care. I other those that I do not wish to sell, so I have no "waste".
Look more into the breeds, go over each SOP and study them from head to tail. Meet some and see what like in person if can. THEN maybe make a choice if still interested in either breed.
Look more into the breeds, go over each SOP and study them from head to tail. Meet some and see what like in person if can. THEN maybe make a choice if still interested in either breed.
Velveteen Lops have passed one presentation and had the working standard published in Domestic Rabbits magazine. Any ARBA show is required to accept vlop entries. They are shown as an exhibition breed, meaning they only compete against each other up to BOB. They are not eligible for BIS competition and do not earn legs. If you are a VLRCA member you can send in show reports to compete in the club's sweepstakes and top lops competitions. When you show them you will need a copy of the standard for the judge. That can be found at http://vlrca.com/standard.html
They are more active than your average breed, but mine have never been particularly destructive. I do provide a lot of toys though. Bucks and growouts live comfortably in 24x24 cages, breeding does in 24x36. Larger wouldn't hurt of course.
We haven't had issues with sore hocks besides one overweight brood doe who came to me with them. Every cage has at least one resting mat. The doe with sore hocks has 3 resting mats to cover about half her cage. That plus treating them with preparation H has made a huge difference and they've healed pretty well. I think her weight has been the issue, and as long as I don't let her get flabby she's fine. None of her offspring have had sore hocks yet.
Since they are still technically a work in progress there aren't a lot of serious breeders out there, and rarely competition at shows. There are challenges to breeding them, simply because there are a lot of parts to get right and most lines are relatively new (less than 10 years). If you're willing to put in the work to understand the standard, choose breedings carefully, evaluate your stock critically, and prepared to cull (terminally or not) then velveteen lops are a lot of fun to raise and very rewarding.
I've only been breeding them for a year, but I'm totally smitten. I'm not on this forum much anymore, but if you want to find me on Facebook I have a rabbitry page. PepperJack Rabbits.
They are more active than your average breed, but mine have never been particularly destructive. I do provide a lot of toys though. Bucks and growouts live comfortably in 24x24 cages, breeding does in 24x36. Larger wouldn't hurt of course.
We haven't had issues with sore hocks besides one overweight brood doe who came to me with them. Every cage has at least one resting mat. The doe with sore hocks has 3 resting mats to cover about half her cage. That plus treating them with preparation H has made a huge difference and they've healed pretty well. I think her weight has been the issue, and as long as I don't let her get flabby she's fine. None of her offspring have had sore hocks yet.
Since they are still technically a work in progress there aren't a lot of serious breeders out there, and rarely competition at shows. There are challenges to breeding them, simply because there are a lot of parts to get right and most lines are relatively new (less than 10 years). If you're willing to put in the work to understand the standard, choose breedings carefully, evaluate your stock critically, and prepared to cull (terminally or not) then velveteen lops are a lot of fun to raise and very rewarding.
I've only been breeding them for a year, but I'm totally smitten. I'm not on this forum much anymore, but if you want to find me on Facebook I have a rabbitry page. PepperJack Rabbits.
