brooder experiment with new chicks

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Rainey

Rainey

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Just picked up our 10 chicks today from the local feed store. This is our second time raising chicks although we've had hens for 13+ years. Decided to try the hot water bottle brooder described in Keeping Poultry and Rabbits on Scraps. When I asked a couple weeks ago, no one had tried it so I'll let you know how it works. Seemed to me that most of us keep the chicks way too warm and that I'd like to see if I could have a place for them to get warm but also give them access to cooler space. The other thing I'm doing differently from our previous time and from most of the advice one gets on-line is to not buy chick starter. We've moved the rabbits and goats off pelletized feed and want to do the same with the chickens. Started these chicks with a mixture of cooked potato, whey, dried nettle and rolled oats. Will add sprouted seeds, some eggs, and worms soon.
So far the chicks seem to move readily in and out of the warm box inside their larger indoor box. I was surprised how much time they choose to spend in the cooler area. Once it's dark, I think they'll stay put in the brooder box and keep warm until morning.
 
I'm not so traditional as many people when raising chicks. I've used gallon jugs of hot water as a heat source with a "tent" over the top. Course grains can be put in a blender to grind them for chicks at first. Greens like dandelions, chicory, clover and grass can be chopped for the chicks and scrambled or hard boiled egg is wonderful for them. Remember that they do need fine granite grit - sold here as chick grit - if they are eating non-processed foods.
 
I will be following this closely. I am very interested in your grow rates and would love some temperature info on the heated and non-heated areas. I would love to get my guest room back.

I have eight three week old chicks in the house right now, and 12 due to hatch in less than a week. Mine get started in the house and then taken to the coop at about four weeks, once they are mostly feathered out. In order to get them out of the house quicker, I do keep a light on them 24 hours a day, and they are on chick starter.

Are these chicks destined to be layers or broilers?
 
MaggieJ":uhtiyrdl said:
I'm not so traditional as many people when raising chicks. I've used gallon jugs of hot water as a heat source with a "tent" over the top. Course grains can be put in a blender to grind them for chicks at first. Greens like dandelions, chicory, clover and grass can be chopped for the chicks and scrambled or hard boiled egg is wonderful for them. Remember that they do need fine granite grit - sold here as chick grit - if they are eating non-processed foods.
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Thanks, Maggie, now I don't feel so crazy. I know they need grit, but understood that if I had a chunk of sod and some "dirt" with sand and various sized pebbles they would pick what they need. So I went out just before the rain changed back to snow :( and dug up some sod and some gravel and put it in a pan in the brooder an hour or so before the feed store called to say the chicks were in. Does that sound ok to you? <br /><br /> __________ Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:55 pm __________ <br /><br />
Marinea":uhtiyrdl said:
I will be following this closely. I am very interested in your grow rates and would love some temperature info on the heated and non-heated areas. I would love to get my guest room back.
I'll try to get some temps taken tomorrow. Before the chicks came when I was setting it up/trying it out, the temp in the 3'x4' box that we used to use with a lamp was in the low 70's and inside the smaller warmed box set into there it was in the 8o's. Today the sun isn't shining and I think it's more like the mid 60's out in the big box, still warm in the small box, I expect.
I have eight three week old chicks in the house right now, and 12 due to hatch in less than a week. Mine get started in the house and then taken to the coop at about four weeks, once they are mostly feathered out. In order to get them out of the house quicker, I do keep a light on them 24 hours a day, and they are on chick starter.
My understanding was that they'd feather out faster if they weren't kept so warm--won't know for myself until the experiment has run a while--but Maggie must know
Are these chicks destined to be layers or broilers?
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These are for layers--3 comets, 3 EE's and 4 brown leghorns
 
Rainey":3muf2mla said:
Thanks, Maggie, now I don't feel so crazy. I know they need grit, but understood that if I had a chunk of sod and some "dirt" with sand and various sized pebbles they would pick what they need. So I went out just before the rain changed back to snow :( and dug up some sod and some gravel and put it in a pan in the brooder an hour or so before the feed store called to say the chicks were in. Does that sound ok to you?
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Yes, you can use a chuck of sod to provide grit. I have done this quite often -- it provides entertainment and trace nutrients from insects and plant materials as well as grit. They will probably demolish it in just a day or two so it will need replacing from time to time.

Keeping chicks too warm can cause problems. My first chicks, back in 2003, I raised in a brooder according to the books. They were in a room with a big west-facing window and when they were 2-3 weeks old, the ambient temperature spiked one afternoon and there was a chick war. Out of 30 chicks, nearly half were injured and one was dead. Horrible. I called the breeder and he said turn off the lamp and darken the brooder until things calmed down. Isolate the injured chicks until they healed. What a mess. Individual chicks in boxes and tupperwares all over the house -- all to be individually fed, watered and cleaned out. They were unhappy at being alone and cheeped miserably from sun-up to sundown. Nearly drove us crazy. Never again!

I've had broody hens with chicks in fairly chilly spring weather. The chicks run about outside and when they get too cool they return to mom for a warm up. So when providing heat to chicks once they are really mobile, I have followed that model. They may get a clip-on lamp for the first week or two, but after that, a hot water jug seems to work just fine. Of course, you do have to be around to replace it with a fresh one every so often. They chicks will let you know if they are unhappy - the tone changes from a happy peep-peep-peep to a shrill and loud cheep-cheep-cheep.

I tend to agree that they feather out faster with lower temperatures, but please note that this is an opinion with no statistics to back it up.

For someone like you, Rainey, who wants to find low-cost, low-tech and more natural solutions to animal husbandry, it is important to bring your powers of observation to bear on the critters and what they are trying to tell you.
 
Let me clarify a bit: my light is not a heat lamp, simply a 100 watt bulb. It is moved higher once a week until the chicks go outside. We rarely run the heat, and the vent to the guest room is closed. They are not getting a lot of heat, mostly the light is on 24/7 to encourage eating, growing and feathering out quicker. If I had to guess, my temps are close to Rainey's. It is my experience that they do feather out faster in cooler temps and prolonged lighting, which encourages eating (my chicks her in Virginia feather out much faster than they did when we lived in Mississippi) I am curious about your setup Rainey, so that I can see if I can change over to something similar with our temps.

The sod/gravel is great for grit. We have a gravel parking area/driveway and very rocky soil and the chickens free range a good deal of the time. I think we have bought grit once in five years- they get it from foraging. On processing birds, I check craws and always find plenty.
 
MaggieJ":2k2ea9tt said:
[
For someone like you, Rainey, who wants to find low-cost, low-tech and more natural solutions to animal husbandry, it is important to bring your powers of observation to bear on the critters and what they are trying to tell you.
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I'm trying to be observant. So far hearing mostly soft peeping and seeing the chicks moving readily into the warmth or out to eat, drink, explore. One obvious message this morning though--a dead chick that had pushed its head up above the dowels that hold the hot water bottle and gotten it caught between the blanket padding and the dowel when we changed the water bottle, either at 10 last night or 6 this morning. Had it set up as the book described but have figured out a different configuration that should be safer.
I do look for low-cost, low-tech solutions partly to live more sustainably and partly because I dislike the manipulation that goes into insisting that everyone needs whatever someone is trying to sell.

I don't know how to do quotes from 2 different posts in one reply so just want to say to Marinea that my chicks were quiet in the warm box, presumably sleeping for about 12 hours last night. So maybe they will grow slower. I wonder if anyone has ever done an experiment to see if light and food 24/7 does mean faster growth or if it is stressful or has any negative impact. And maybe it would depend partly on whether the goal was eggs for a longer term or to get to butcher size asap.
And I'm having trouble getting temp readings without disturbing the chicks--and that it makes quite a difference where inside there the probe is placed.
 
They will likely grow a bit slower, but it's really not an issue. I raise mine with constant light/feed mostly because I want them out of the house as quick as possible. I have raised the chicks this way for years, and never had any issues down the road. Mine are raised as layers as well.
We don't have an outside brooder, much as I would like one. I don't let the hens raise the chicks because of the way we have our setup- our coop is raised a few feet off the ground and it would be tough, I think, for little ones to maneuver in and out.

Any chance we could get some pics of the setup?
 
An experiment comparing the two systems would be interesting. Both work and people have their preferences, based on their needs. I certainly understand, Marinea, why you want them out of the house as soon as possible. :lol:

Don't tell MSD, but after the first couple of weeks I use a rabbit cage in the greenhouse for chicks in cool spring weather, but I do have to be careful that they don't overheat on a really warm day. The greenhouse has a vent and if we leave the door open as well there is usually good air flow. If it is chilly at night, a blanket over the cage helps hold in the heat from the water jug. I use a gallon plastic vinegar jug for the hot water.

Since the "chick war" that we had with our first chicks, I have come to believe that chicks benefit from their hours of darkness. I've always felt that it is important for both growth and good temperament -- but I readily admit that I have no scientific facts to back this up.

I tend to work intuitively to a great degree. If I can be said to have a guideline to animal husbandry it is to do things as much as possible "as in nature". Sometimes this means that I do things (like feeding rabbits naturally) that go against the usual advice.
 
Marinea--Perhaps I was misleading or unclear. This is not an outside set-up. It's in a sunspace that we use as a greenhouse to grow winter greens and seedlings in spring, attached to our living space. Also where I grew fodder this winter. Outside here it was 0 F one morning this week and the snow is still a foot in most places. Will try to get photos. Not so good at photos--getting them into a post--but will work on it.
 
Thanks, Rainey, I understand. But I am hopeful your setup can be modified to be an outside one down here in ol' Virginny. :)

(Can you tell I REALLY want my guest room back?)
 
What are your outside highs and lows there in Virginia now? And how feathered are your chicks. It amazes is me how fast they grow and feather--yesterday they were just fuzzballs and already today they have those first feathers on the wings. I hope to have these chickens outside by the time they're 3 weeks old, but it will depend on when it warms up a bit and how they seem to be doing.
 
Highs are running between 40 and 65, and lows from 20 to 40.

Mine will be going outside in a week. I will segregate them in our insulated (yes, we did that) coop and provide a light for them at night until it warms up a bit more. But that means I will have the next batch in our guest room.

As to feathers (chicks are 3 weeks and 2 days old), here:

image.php
 
MaggieJ":3eigi5h1 said:
Don't tell MSD, but after the first couple of weeks I use a rabbit cage in the greenhouse for chicks in cool spring weather, but I do have to be careful that they don't overheat on a really warm day.
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:eek:verreaction: Must I watch you people every minute? :wall: :wall: :wall:

<SIGH!!!>

Alright, Maggie. You are hereby granted an exemption from the "nothing but rabbits in rabbit cages" rule, since you colony raise.

But! Using a greenhouse to house chicks?!? Greenhouses are for seedlings, and plants in general. :yes: Those chicks are taking up valuable space that you could be utilizing to grow rabbit food! :angry:

Ugh... must go outside and pet some baby bunnies now to moderate my heart rate and breathing. :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny:
 
Marinea said:
Highs are running between 40 and 65, and lows from 20 to 40.

Mine will be going outside in a week. I will segregate them in our insulated (yes, we did that) coop and provide a light for them at night until it warms up a bit more. But that means I will have the next batch in our guest room.

How many batches will there be to run through the guest room? Maybe when it gets a bit warmer outside you could get them outside earlier with someplace to warm up. The brooders described in the book I mentioned were all to be used outside--but the author was in England and I think it was warmer than where I am. Still any way you can set up a small space where they can warm up would work, I think. I reworked my box this afternoon and thought about taking pictures but couldn't think how to do it so it would be clear and if I were doing it again I'd do it differently anyway.
I had a wooden box about 11"x16" and a little under a foot high. Cut a 4" square opening in one end and hung strips of cloth over it so the chicks can go in through them. Closed off the other end with cardboard and put the can of hot water in there. Then put a cover about 4" above the floor, make a nest of hay under it and put scraps of fleece above it for insulation. Then a lid above that, lined with reflective foil to hold in heat--lined the bottom the same way.[album]3242[/album] But you could do a similar thing with just a milk jug of hot water like Maggie mentioned--I did that this afternoon and the chicks gathered around it when I had the warmer box out to work on it.[album]3243[/album]
I can picture a set-up in an outdoor insulated coop using the jug of hot water under an upside down bucket with an opening cut so the could go in and out. Maybe a smaller bucket, then some sort of insulation and then a bigger one covering that and the hot water jug in the center. I think there'd be lots of ways to do it once one gets past the idea that they have to be at 95 for the first week, and drop 5 degrees each week. They just need to be able to warm up when they get chilled. Today it's more like 55-60 in the space I have my chicks and they do go into the warmer from time to time, but they don't stay there, and it isn't 95 even in there.
Sorry that's so long and probably still hard to picture.
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Thanks for the pics! I totally get it now, and yes, I think we can put together something similar.

We moved the older chicks out to the coop today. I haven't put a light on them in there. Will see how they do. I expect they'll be fine. We are in the middle of a home improvement project at the moment, so we really don't have time to cobble together a new brooder, but I will be trying it after we get done with or project. Oh, and after we finish planting our garden, etc., etc.

Thanks again for the info Rainey.
 
This was my brooder pen, until I found out we couldn't have chickens here, curses!
 

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Marinea":2gmnpwu5 said:
Thanks for the pics! I totally get it now, and yes, I think we can put together something similar.

We moved the older chicks out to the coop today. I haven't put a light on them in there. Will see how they do. I expect they'll be fine. We are in the middle of a home improvement project at the moment, so we really don't have time to cobble together a new brooder, but I will be trying it after we get done with or project. Oh, and after we finish planting our garden, etc., etc.

Thanks again for the info Rainey.
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I've been surprised how little heat the chicks really need and especially liked Maggie's milk jug suggestion through the day On sunny days they don't even use that and I only put the warm box in for the night to give them more room to move around. Seems to me that all the advice on chick raising overdoes the heat.
On the other hand the older book's brooder plan didn't address the chicks piling up and I lost 2 chicks one each on the first 2 nights. I'm not sure what happened to the second one, but it didn't come out with the others in the morning and when I got it out it couldn't stand up and didn't live long. Several days later everyone else is healthy and I tweaked the inside of the box, hung fleece scraps on the inside walls instead of lining it with hay as the book said. So I would do it this way again, but it took some tweaking to get it right.
I'm still figuring out the feeding, trying to provide variety and they seem to want mashed up egg and potato with whey, dried nettle and rolled oats mixed in but tend to ignore seeds whether ground up, soaked, or sprouted. I waited to try those until I had seen them taking grit but they seem like kids who don't want to try anything new.
 
On the other hand the older book's brooder plan didn't address the chicks piling up and I lost 2 chicks one each on the first 2 nights. I'm not sure what happened to the second one, but it didn't come out with the others in the morning and when I got it out it couldn't stand up and didn't live long.
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Oh gee... I'm so sorry. I totally forgot to mention the danger of chicks piling up in corners. The recommended solution to this problem is to use a round or oval shape. Chicken supply places sell lengths of corrugated cardboard to put inside a square of rectangular brooder to eliminate corners. It is not expensive and may be a good thing to look into. I used it with my first chicks (30 of them... what did I know?) but with smaller batches after that I didn't need it and kind of forgot about it. I'm so sorry about that. :(
 
MaggieJ":13kml58k said:
Oh gee... I'm so sorry. I totally forgot to mention the danger of chicks piling up in corners. The recommended solution to this problem is to use a round or oval shape. Chicken supply places sell lengths of corrugated cardboard to put inside a square of rectangular brooder to eliminate corners. It is not expensive and may be a good thing to look into. I used it with my first chicks (30 of them... what did I know?) but with smaller batches after that I didn't need it and kind of forgot about it. I'm so sorry about that. :(
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No apology necessary. I knew that from when we did our first batch more conventionally--about rounding off the corners--and saw it in many of the places I looked for advice on alternatives to brooder lamps. But last time we did this, with the lamp positioned well, they just did spread out. When I made the box by the directions they seemed to be warm enough but it put them in a smaller space and I don't think the hay or the dowels to "roof" the nest area worked well. They didn't seem to want to go into it, but since I've changed it they scoot right in at dusk.
I've been thinking about how the book didn't really address the piling up issue and wondered if over time as chicks have been bred and raised under different conditions they are less able to cope--sort of what I've heard about commercial turkey breeds not knowing enough to come in out of the rain or some of the meat chicks that get too heavy too fast for their legs to hold them up. Just wondering as I try to make it work less like a factory.
 

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