Breeding a Lilac Silver Marten doe to a.....

What?

First I read that I would have the best luck breeding my lilac doe to a black buck...

Then, I read that since it is a dilute of chocolate, I should breed her to a chocolate buck to get more chocolates...

And then I read that if I bred her to a blue I would get only lilacs or possible opals....



I am so confused! What color of kits could I expect out of each of the buck colors? She is a Lilac silver marten. She came out of a Blue Silver Marten mom, and a unknown color dad....

see...all types of possibilities. that's the fun that is rabbits.

question is...what do YOU want to get?

It's going to depend what the buck is carrying since a lilac is a very recessive color. If a black is carrying no recessives you will get black only. If it carries dilute you will get blue. If it carries chocolate you will get chocolate. If it carries both dilute and chocolate you will get lilac plus everything else already mentioned.

With a chocolate buck you lose the possibility of black so no blues or blacks. You will get chocolates and if the chocolate carries dilute you will also get lilacs.

If you breed her to a blue everything will be dilute since dilute is recessive and both blue and lilac are dilute colors. You will only get self colors not agouti like opal because self is recessive and both of those are self colors. You will get blues. If the blue carries chocolate you will get lilacs with the blues.

That's not counting the random stuff that can pop up such as if both your lilac doe and your buck were carrying rew or himi. Chinchilla which makes silver martin is dominant to those and will cover them up. If nonextension existed you could get ermines. Or BEW if they both carry it. You never really know. I've had stuff that was not on the pedigree show up before. My blue line threw a surprise chocolate once without any chocolates or lilacs on their pedigrees. My creme d'argent has NZ just off her pedigree since cremes are hard to find here and getting inbred and she throws more blacks than cremes when crossed to a self colored buck like my chocolate mini rex or my champagne d'argent buck. I can't find a good creme buck so I'm using her to found my meat rabbit colony.

I didn't know you could breed back a lilac to a chocolate and get chocolates...

I am still trying to figure it out and how you can tell what you will get. I am trying to keep to the chocolate and blue lines. I guess I am going to have to just play around with my options... I have a while to go yet, she is still just a baby. I just get overwhelmed. I understand some of it, but alot of it, reads like another language to me! LOL

So it is just a somewhat educated guessing game unless you have multiple generations that you have bred yourself... lol Fun!

Lilac is just dilute chocolate. If you take away the dilute you get chocolate. A non dilute color like black or chocolate will only produce at best 50% dilutes and possibly none. That's why you end up with blacks or chocolates from blue and lilac crosses. The same happens with chocolate and black. Chocolate is recessive to black so if you breed a chocolate to a black you get at best 50% chocolate and possibly all black. Same thing with blue and lilac since blue is dilute black and lilac is dilute chocolate replace the black in the previous sentence with blue and the chocolate with lilac.

Are letters easier for you? B-black, b-chocolate, D-normal color, d-dilute. All genes come in pairs.

BB is black, Bb is black in appearance carrying chocolate, bb is chocolate
DD is normal color,Dd is normal colored carrying dilute, dd is diluted
therefore
BBDD is plain black that cannot throw blue or chocolate
BbDD is black that can throw chocolate
BBDd is black that can throw blue
BbDd is black that can throw chocolate, blue, and lilac

BBdd is blue that cannot throw chocolate
Bbdd is blue that can throw chocolate or lilac

bbDD is chocolate that cannot throw lilac
bbDd is chocolate that can throw lilac

bbdd is lilac

Now the mother contributes 1 of her genes from each pair so 1 B or b and 1 D or d depending what she has and the father contributes one so if we combine a few colors:

bbdd-lilac with bbDd-chocolate carrying dilute (lilac) each parent can only give a b so all offspring are bb-chocolate based, one parent can only give d so one of the dilute gene pairs will be d-diluted and the other parent can give a D-not diluted or a d-diluted. There's a 50% chance of either making our offspring have a 50% chance of bbdd-lilac and a 50% chance of bbDd-chocolate carrying dilute(lilac)
If our chocolate rabbit does not carry dilute and we have bbdd x bbDD Then each parent can only give b again making all our offspring bb and none of them black/blue and one parent can only give d while the other can only give D making all offspring have both Dd so all our offspring have to be bbDd-chocolate carrying dilute and you will not see any lilacs.
When we throw black in the mix we are just dealing with B instead of only bb. Any rabbit that gets a B is black based which dilutes to blue if they are dd. 2 chocolate based rabbits, bb, cannot make a black based rabbit because there is no B, but a black based rabbit since it can be carrying Bb and appear black but contribute a b can make a chocolate based rabbit. A dilute rabbit has to be dd and has no D to give so if you mix 2 dilutes you can only get dd or diluted rabbits where a non diluted rabbit can be DD and make no dilutes or Dd and contribute a d 50% of the time to make half dilutes and half normal colored.
Combining 2 heterozygous pairs (gene pairs that are not the same) like Bb with Bb (bb and BB would be homozygous pairs) will give you 25% only the dominant color, in this case BB or black with no chocolate, 50% heterozygous-Bb which appears the dominant color, black, but carries the recessive color, chocolate, and 25% of the recessive color- bb or chocolate. This applies to all combinations of dominant and recessive genes that only have 2 possible colors. Dd with Dd equal 25% DD, 50% Dd, and 25% dd. It is possible to have a gene set with 3 or 4 possible genes instead of just a dominant in capital letters and recessive in lower case letters.

Of course real life breeding does not come out perfectly 50/50. Each litter may have more or less of the possible colors than the percentages on paper because these are only the odds each kit could be a given color. Just like you may get some litters with mostly bucks and some litters with mostly does even though genetically they have a 50% chance of being either. If you breed lots of rabbits eventually the ratios do even out to the projected percentages.

I breed Lilac too chocolate.breeding too black will produce almost all blacks.even if the black carries chocolate.i know because these are the colors i raise.If you breed her too blue you will get blue.I use all chocolate carrier blacks and get maybe 5 percent chocolates.

All this talk about chocolate is making me hungry It's all about what you would like i guess.If you are not sure do both and see what pops up.One of the reasons i like Thriantas is because they come in one color Either way i'm coming to swipe those cuties :twisted:

Akane, thank you so much! That was very helpful! I think I am FINALLY starting to get it!
I would like to produce some more chocolates.... so I need to find a chocolate buck that will compliment her... And I am also doing blues, so if I need to, I can breed her to my blue buck.

I love rabbits!!! They are such a fun mysterious puzzle when it comes to colors!

Beach Bunny.... I keep them hidden! lol you have to come find them! BTW, I saw my first Thrianta at the rabbit show I went to and they are absolutely beautiful! I love the richness of their color! It is a good thing I have limited space! LOL I would have SOOO many rabbits!

I have Bunny radar haha.I love their color plus they match my boyfriend's beard! I know the feeling help us all if i end up with land one day there are so many cute breeds out there!