Barn security

Ok, so I am getting these four rabbits.
2 Rex, 2 angoras.
I bought this homesteading property and it has a nice little barn which I want to use to house my rabbits.
Did I mention I am new to all of this?

So here's the first of many questions to come-
What should I look for to make sure my bunnies won't be in any danger out there?
It appears to be a pretty tight building except it is possible for something to dig underneath and come in on one end of the barn opposite of where I want to keep them. The other end is closed off by doors so these two rooms would be my bunny rooms. One has a wood floor, the other has a gravel floor and I don't see any gaps where the walls meet the ground.

So am I being too paranoid, or what?
Signed,
Nervous in New York

I was in almost the exact situation here a couple months ago
what I did was set out a jag of live traps before buying any rabbits to see if there were any feral cats or raccoons that needed to be cleaned out

Welcome! And no, you are not being paranoid....you are being cautious and that is a good thing. As long as there is adequate ventilation in there, you should be ok. I am concerned that you say it is a "tight" building, since rabbit areas need to be well ventilated to keep down the ammonia levels. How are you exchanging the air?

Are you housing your rabbits in individual cages? Usually, rabbits in cages a fairly tight barn are quite safe from predators, but there are things you can do to make them safer.

Cover all windows with 1/2" hardware cloth to keep out predators, so you can leave the windows open in hot weather. The biggest problems in barns is usually from weasels and rats, which can slip in through the smallest spaces.

If you are making your own cages, use welded wire no larger than 1"x1" and you will exclude most predators from the cages.

The biggest problems in barns is usually from weasels and rats. They can both get through anything larger than 1"x1". Floors of your cages should be 1"x1/2" and the wire should be 14 gauge, galvanized after welding, for strength.

I have had my rabbits in a less-than-perfect shed for years. We do get rat problems from time to time and I use poison (with extreme care) at the first sign of them. Weasels are a mixed blesssing. Nothing gets rid of rats like a resident weasel or mink, but they may eventually turn to your rabbits as a source of food. I've never lost a rabbit to them, but I have lost the odd chicken.(Fair payment, in my opinion, for their extermination services... but you do want to protect your stock from them.) I have found that exclusion of predators works far better than extermination, except for rats, which multiply like rabbits.

lostcreekrabbits":1df41dl0 said:

I was in almost the exact situation here a couple months ago
what I did was set out a jag of live traps before buying any rabbits to see if there were any feral cats or raccoons that needed to be cleaned out

Click to expand...

That's a good suggestion. I've been here since last November and I kept watch for tracks in the snow. Nothing around the barn at all, and only occasional deer tracks. We have a lot of moles in the yard and nothing seems to be bothering them at all, so I take that as a good sign too. I have heard coyotes occasionally, but don't think they should be a problem now.<br /><br />__________ Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:39 am __________<br /><br />

OneAcreFarm":1df41dl0 said:

Welcome! And no, you are not being paranoid....you are being cautious and that is a good thing. As long as there is adequate ventilation in there, you should be ok. I am concerned that you say it is a "tight" building, since rabbit areas need to be well ventilated to keep down the ammonia levels. How are you exchanging the air?

Click to expand...

By tight I mean it's a relatively new, solid building. There is plenty of ventilation and it has a couple of half doors where I could leave the top half open to let the breeze flow thru.
I was concerned about something digging under the wall on one side of the barn because I can see a small (less than an inch) gap of light coming thru where the wall meets the ground. But even so, the buns would be in the other end of the barn behind a closed door and those rooms don't appear to have any gaps at all although a have some strange thorny thing growing in the one corner, which of course I will totally remove. I mean if something was very determined, I guess it could dig a deep hole and still manage to get in underneath, but is that likely?

The place I got two of the buns from has open colonies in their yard. I have never seen anything like this!
These rabbits are barely contained at all, and seem very happy and content. I would like to raise these guys as naturally as possible, but I'm not about to compromise their safety.

It is quite feasible to have a colony within a stall or room in your barn. Be aware though that rabbits do not all get along. It is best to start with young stock so they can grow up together if they are going to be housed together. No more than one buck per colony pen and you might want to keep your Angoras separate from the others.

Watching for tracks this winter was smart. It can tell you so much! I suggest plugging that one-inch gap with cement blocks or bricks to minimize the chance of rats or weasels finding their way in. Preventing a predator problem is a hundred times more effective than dealing with it.

MaggieJ":2vzf118x said:

I have had my rabbits in a less-than-perfect shed for years. We do get rat problems from time to time and I use poison (with extreme care) at the first sign of them. Weasels are a mixed blesssing. Nothing gets rid of rats like a resident weasel or mink, but they may eventually turn to your rabbits as a source of food. I've never lost a rabbit to them, but I have lost the odd chicken.(Fair payment, in my opinion, for their extermination services... but you do want to protect your stock from them.) I have found that exclusion of predators works far better than extermination, except for rats, which multiply like rabbits.

Click to expand...

The only thing I've seen so far is mice and moles. I think the moles are opening casinos in my yard, some of the dirt piles are getting pretty big!

I am building my own cages and I am making sure they are the proper sizes.
I would like to cage them at night, but let them hop around the stalls during the day.
Eventually, I'm going to fence in the pasture area in front of their outside door so that they can access the yard.

one room measures about 5' X 7' and has a wood floor. The previous owner had goats in these rooms.
Is it ok to let the angoras out here? Should I use some sort of bedding?
Someone recommended Equine Fresh to me for litter filler. Could I use that, or should I just leave the floor bare?
The other area is much bigger, but I was thinking of fencing it off to be the same size.
But in here the floor is gravel. Little gray gravel. Is it ok for rex's to run on that?
Should I shovel it out to the dirt floor or put wood on this floor too?

:shrug:

Barnhouse":c6bomntu said:

lostcreekrabbits":c6bomntu said:

I was in almost the exact situation here a couple months ago
what I did was set out a jag of live traps before buying any rabbits to see if there were any feral cats or raccoons that needed to be cleaned out

Click to expand...

That's a good suggestion. I've been here since last November and I kept watch for tracks in the snow. Nothing around the barn at all, and only occasional deer tracks. We have a lot of moles in the yard and nothing seems to be bothering them at all, so I take that as a good sign too. I have heard coyotes occasionally, but don't think they should be a problem now.

__________ Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:39 am __________

OneAcreFarm":c6bomntu said:

Welcome! And no, you are not being paranoid....you are being cautious and that is a good thing. As long as there is adequate ventilation in there, you should be ok. I am concerned that you say it is a "tight" building, since rabbit areas need to be well ventilated to keep down the ammonia levels. How are you exchanging the air?

Click to expand...

By tight I mean it's a relatively new, solid building. There is plenty of ventilation and it has a couple of half doors where I could leave the top half open to let the breeze flow thru.
I was concerned about something digging under the wall on one side of the barn because I can see a small (less than an inch) gap of light coming thru where the wall meets the ground. But even so, the buns would be in the other end of the barn behind a closed door and those rooms don't appear to have any gaps at all although a have some strange thorny thing growing in the one corner, which of course I will totally remove. I mean if something was very determined, I guess it could dig a deep hole and still manage to get in underneath, but is that likely?

The place I got two of the buns from has open colonies in their yard. I have never seen anything like this!
These rabbits are barely contained at all, and seem very happy and content. I would like to raise these guys as naturally as possible, but I'm not about to compromise their safety.

Click to expand...

Put out some traps with some real stinky bait in it, anchovies work well, if there's any raccoons in the neighborhood it hould bring them running, also make sure you put a trap outside the barn, as well as one inside

lostcreekrabbits":icboisml said:

Put out some traps with some real stinky bait in it, anchovies work well, if there's any raccoons in the neighborhood it hould bring them running, also make sure you put a trap outside the barn, as well as one inside

Click to expand...

Ok, so if I didn't have raccoons before, I will now. :lol:
Actually, I like your suggestion. I think I even have a few live traps here somewhere.

Barnhouse":2erot0kc said:

lostcreekrabbits":2erot0kc said:

Put out some traps with some real stinky bait in it, anchovies work well, if there's any raccoons in the neighborhood it hould bring them running, also make sure you put a trap outside the barn, as well as one inside

Click to expand...

Ok, so if I didn't have raccoons before, I will now. :lol:
Actually, I like your suggestion. I think I even have a few live traps here somewhere.

Click to expand...

They might be around and you don't even know it, the stanky bait will have em coming out of the woodwork if they're anywhere in the vicinity.... your rabbits would also do the same so we need to get those rascals (provided they or feral cats or fisher cats or mink or weasels are around) cleaned out

EDIT: before you start trapping out the local pests you might have to get nuisance animal removal permit from your local fish and game office, I was thinking about removing pests around here but laws vary a ton from state to state

lostcreekrabbits":34z4a9cj said:

EDIT: before you start trapping out the local pests you might have to get nuisance animal removal permit from your local fish and game office, I was thinking about removing pests around here but laws vary a ton from state to state

Click to expand...

I guess I should mention one other thing-
I'm right on the edge of a state park. Now outside critter-wise, that could be a good thing cause they have plenty of their own space and hunting grounds.
Or it could be a bad thing cause "KEEP OUT" is not going to make any impression on these guys. :spider:

hmm, do you have a dog?

Barnhouse, you need to assume you have the usual predators: coyotes, foxes, raccoons, possums, weasels, mink, possibly fishers... Owls, hawks, rats. Oh, yes... and wandering dogs and cats. I'm in a similar situation here, except that we do not (yet!) have possums.

Contrary to many people's expectations, this need not be a big problem. If you have a secure barn and you close up at night (except for predator-proofed windows) you will rarely, if ever, have a serious problem. As I mentioned before, the weasels and rats are the biggest risk simply because they are small and can get in places where others cannot fit. So you do need to do inspections from time to time for gaps and signs of gnawing. Continue to watch the tracks, in snow or mud. It's your newspaper of current events in your yard.

Work with the wild things where you can. They all have their place in the larger scheme of things and all you need to do is to exclude them from your barn. They soon learn there is nothing to be had there and stop including it in their rounds.

You should also be sure to exclude access by birds and bats. The birds around here love barns to nest in and forage for spilled feed. There are differing opinions as to whether the coccidia carried by birds affects rabbits, but if they soil your cages or food/water sources it is possible that the rabbits could become ill. Bats commonly are hosts to Bedbugs, and they carry 27 pathogens known to cause disease in humans, although there is no evidence that they actually transmit disease. I doubt any studies have been done on transmission to rabbits, but their bites are very irritating and best avoided.

I don't believe the pea gravel would hurt the rabbit's feet, but of course it is a possibility. They will likely dig through it though, but you could use 2" x 4" woven wire fencing laid on top to prevent that, and still have the benefit of the urine draining through the gravel bed. If you decide to replace it, rather than wood floors, I would recommend rubber stall mats. They will not degrade from the urine or hold the odor as wood will. Someone mentioned that wood stove pellets are the same as the pelleted pine bedding for animals, and they are less expensive.

Good luck on your new venture, and welcome to the wonderful world of rabbits!

lostcreekrabbits":346tlpm7 said:

hmm, do you have a dog?

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I have a 50lb. schab and a 9 lb. toy poodle, but he knows karate.

__________ Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:46 pm __________

MaggieJ":346tlpm7 said:

Barnhouse, you need to assume you have the usual predators: coyotes, foxes, raccoons, possums, weasels, mink, possibly fishers... Owls, hawks, rats. Oh, yes... and wandering dogs and cats. I'm in a similar situation here, except that we do not (yet!) have possums.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Possums go after rabbits??

Contrary to many people's expectations, this need not be a big problem. If you have a secure barn and you close up at night (except for predator-proofed windows) you will rarely, if ever, have a serious problem. As I mentioned before, the weasels and rats are the biggest risk simply because they are small and can get in places where others cannot fit. So you do need to do inspections from time to time for gaps and signs of gnawing. Continue to watch the tracks, in snow or mud. It's your newspaper of current events in your yard.

Click to expand...

This barn doesn't have any windows. They put panels in the roof that allow daylight in nicely so they won't be in a dark place.
Doors on both sides in the middle take care of ventilation.

Work with the wild things where you can. They all have their place in the larger scheme of things and all you need to do is to exclude them from your barn. They soon learn there is nothing to be had there and stop including it in their rounds.

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True. Don't want to see those guys hurt either.<br /><br />__________ Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:54 pm __________<br /><br />

MamaSheepdog":346tlpm7 said:

You should also be sure to exclude access by birds and bats. The birds around here love barns to nest in and forage for spilled feed.

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Now that's something I hadn't even considered. Thank you! I will inspect.

I don't believe the pea gravel would hurt the rabbit's feet, but of course it is a possibility. They will likely dig through it though, but you could use 2" x 4" woven wire fencing laid on top to prevent that, and still have the benefit of the urine draining through the gravel bed.

Click to expand...

Cool.

If you decide to replace it, rather than wood floors, I would recommend rubber stall mats. They will not degrade from the urine or hold the odor as wood will

Click to expand...

.
I have rubber mats that my husband brings home from time to time. If I put those over the wood, should I still use bedding of some sort?

Someone mentioned that wood stove pellets are the same as the pelleted pine bedding for animals, and they are less expensive.

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I have lots of those here too. The bag says 100% hardwood, but somebody told me that it could still contain treated wood that might be harmful to the buns if they ate them. All it says on the bag is not for human or animal consumption.
Would this be ok for litter and/or bedding?

Good luck on your new venture, and welcome to the wonderful world of rabbits!

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Thank you. I can't wait to get these babies home.

I would use bedding on the mats or provide litter boxes, otherwise they will get urine on themselves. Rabbits don't choose what to eat by its appearance, they use their sense of smell- and hardwood pellets don't smell like food. I doubt there is treated wood in the pellets- the "greenies" would go nuts if people were spewing even more toxins into the air with their nasty wood stoves!

MamaSheepdog":1x63lx80 said:

I would use bedding on the mats or provide litter boxes, otherwise they will get urine on themselves. Rabbits don't choose what to eat by its appearance, they use their sense of smell- and hardwood pellets don't smell like food. I doubt there is treated wood in the pellets- the "greenies" would go nuts if people were spewing even more toxins into the air with their nasty wood stoves!

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Alrighty then, so does a combination of wood pellets and equine fresh sound like a good bedding choice in these rooms?
I will also make litter pans available to them.

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions. I haven't been this excited since I brought my daughter home for the first time 30 years ago! :wheelcha:

If your barn has no windows, I strongly suggest you make hardware cloth covered window frames to fit securely into the upper parts of the barn doors. This will not only give good ventilation but should exclude predators and nuisances such as birds and bats.

I don't know if possums will bother rabbits but I know of people who have had problems with them killing chickens. You don't want them in there.

MaggieJ":1g52bg5w said:

If your barn has no windows, I strongly suggest you make hardware cloth covered window frames to fit securely into the upper parts of the barn doors. This will not only give good ventilation but should exclude predators and nuisances such as birds and bats.

Click to expand...

Now that's an excellent idea. I will add that to my "things to get" and "honey do" lists.
Don't want hubby to feel left out. :roll:

I don't know if possums will bother rabbits but I know of people who have had problems with them killing chickens. You don't want them in there.

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What about fleas and ticks? Any problems in those areas?

Exclude the wild things and you exclude the parasite problem, for the most part. I've never had parasite issues with my rabbits, except one litter way back in 2006 (filthy little things!) that showed minor liver coccidiosis upon butchering. Meant I had to toss the livers but it was a one-time situation. I culled that whole line including momma and that was the end of the problem. All our rabbits are descended from that doe's clean-and-tidy sister, who always trained her kits well.