Angoras in a colony

yes, that's right! I said ANGORAS in a colony.

I'm new at the rabbit thing. With a lot of research on the topic, I decided to try it out. 4 French/English Angoras were purchased at 12weeks old, and put in an 8x8 pen in an unused bedroom in my house. They loved it. Eventually the boy had to leave for his own 3x4 area (and 1 month later we had 2 litters of lovely little bunnies...but I digress).

The pen has a rubber sheeting (like roofing stuff) as a base, with 4ft high sides made of 2x4s for a frame and chicken wire as a barrier. It's bedded lightly with shavings, and they get a good quality timothy/alfalfa hay just chucked into the center. Also, a baby pig waterer (1 gallon size) and a communal feed pan.

There are numerous places for them to run through and hide in...which they use A LOT. Flue tiles, tubs with cutout doors, shelves, and they quite often rest on the 2x4 that is part of the fence..horizontal, about 2feet off the floor.

I've harvested wool from them 2 times now and it's never matted, never has stuff in it. It's also not stained. They keep each other clean by grooming, and as they move around things the shavings and hay just fly out of the wool.

I do NOT think they would do well outdoors in a typical full blown colony. Come summer they will go outside on good days tho. (they do love their greens!)

I will also have a full blown outdoor colony of NewZealands come Spring. It's mostly set up, just waiting for the snow to melt and the ground to thaw.

If anyone ever has questions or suggestions for me about this...just holler.

Ann - how are you going to keep your outside colony set up?
last summer I had 3 hutches in a large dog run (10x10) and I rotated who was out when - it was a bit of a magic juggling act then one of the young females started digging .. so it became even more challenging

I'm torn about how to set up next summer already - the bulk of my rabbits are fibre rabbits and are mixed adults - I'm hoping to work on bonding pairs or females at least - they often lie up against each other's runs and groom each other now ..but the winter set up is side by side runs - ranging from 8x8 to 2x6 - the three bucks live lonely bachelor lives at the moment in the same kind of space ..

I can't decide if they should live mainly in hutches outside for the summer, some should stay in ..in runs or what....

First they'll move into an 8x8 former chicken coop. It's been completely cleaned out and sanitized, although I have to fix the people door so that the buns don't escape when I walk in. I might just build a "porch" type thing with a 2nd door..walk in, close door behind you, open door to building.

The pop door will lead out to 1 run, and another pop door on the other side of the building will lead to another pen. I'll rotate which area is open. The outdoor areas will be 20x15, which I hope is large enough for them. God only knows if it will work. If it's too small, I can fence in more. The will ONLY go out if it's dry outside. Great Googly Moogly...a muddy angora...:shock:

Anyway...If anyone starts to dig badly, I'll lay down galvanized wire over the whole floor. I'm planning on giving them a sandpile in each section so they can dig a little. The sand piles will be under a porch/gazebo roof so that it doesn't get nasty wet.

They'll also have a lot of tunnel type things and climbable toys/tubs. I'm hoping that with enough to do, they won't dig. After following the advice you, ladysown and maggie gave me about toys, I noticed that the running around like crazy beasts stopped.

The bucks...useless males that they are...ahem....I'm hoping to find one buck that I really want to use on all the girls. he can live with them for a month at a time, then he'll move to his bachelor pad....a hutch that is attached to one side of the angora coop. He'll be able to see and touch them, but won't be able to breed (one hopes).

I just don't know if this is going to work out for the wool. So far, it's good. Obviously I can't count on wool being good if they're having popples all the time. So I have to control that.

I have found in the past that if I leave a section of fencing on the ground accidentally for a few weeks, I can't find it in the grass...so that may be what I do for the colony.

Truthfully, I don't know if it will work or not. I do know that the indoor one is working decently, and obviously they shared the nest box, so there is no real competition or aggression amongst the does. The cage they were in during the kindling time was HUGE (6x8) and stuffed with hay, so they could have easily dug out a separate nest area. But they didn't...just shared the box. In the coop they'll have separate boxes for each doe if they want.

I have been fascinated by how the does worked out sharing duties with the kits. Even the doe who didn't kindle shepherds them around.

Not sure if that's enough of an answer for the question. If not, ask more questions, and I'll try to clarify.<br /><br />__________ Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:52 pm __________<br /><br />oh, almost forgot. The bonded pair or trio thing really does work. One of the house rabbit people here in Madison has 2 jersey woolies and an angora that she got separately. They lived in cages that were next to each other for months, and one day she just put them all in a big pen outside together. They ran and hopped and played together all afternoon. She just opened the cages up so that they had one long cage and let them have a sort of caged colony. Happy bunnies. After that experience, she said she just houses rabbits next to each other for a few weeks to see if they fight thru the wire. If they get along...they get to live together.

She doesn't spay the females usually, since they don't go into a heat cycle. The males are neutered. (we have a houserabbit organization here that does spaying/neutering for $20 on the 3rd Saturday of the month.)

Ok, Ann. An ARBA Judge/French Angora Breeder is coming up here next month and I am seriously thinking about the possibility of trying to purchase 3-4 rabbits from her.

So, I wanted a general update on your Angora colony. I know there were a bunch of babies. Are those all gone now? Any problems with fur chewing? Were you getting decent fiber from your girls before the babies?

I think I would try to replicate my truck-bed colony for the Angoras, keeping the buck in a wire cage inside the colony so he can still be around them. (I wrote a long post on how I'm managing a colony and still showing on my blog, homelesshomesteader.wordpress.com.)

I just want to know that I can still get the wool from them in my preferred housing set-up. However, since these may be the only French Angoras up here, I very well could put them to work reproducing for a bit to pay off their purchase/shipping price!

The colony is excellent. My three original does bonded really well (they were not siblings, but were raised together from 2 months). Yes, I get excellent wool from them. I just have to catch the shed before they start to lose all that glorious wool into the shavings.

They are perfectly clean. The shavings (and now straw) that I use for bedding doesn't stick in the wool. They run enough and bounce around so that it just shakes out. They also groom each other a lot. That, too, helps keep them clean. The only thing i've found that will stick in the deep wool (other than a rose bush...don't ask) is alfalfa hay leaves. Even THAT isn't bad.

They get free fed barley, wheat, oats, pellets mix. And free fed timothy and alfalfa hays. I alternate the hays. They also get a lot of greens. Eventually, when they go to the farm (soon..soon...I promise...) they'll be outside on good days in a rotation pen.

Even the white guy stays clean. That said...I do NOT take the belly wool. I could, it's clean enough, but they tend to lose that first in the shed with all the running around they do on the bedding.

The 3 girls had another batch of kits. 15 total. (6/6/3) and shared a nest tunnel. Everyone is fat and happy. The does kindled in separate areas of the tunnel...but right next to each other. The kits are pretty much shared by all three does. actually..by 4 does. I have one 5 month old that didn't get bred..She's Auntie Hannah.

The 3 mothers shared nursing duty. Same as I saw when the 2 does kindled. They each go in to nurse their own "section"...the sections kept changing content tho :lol: The ones that didn't quite get full from momma 1, would wriggle down to the next nest when the 2nd momma came in. After awhile, they were all just in one big nest and it was a free for all.

Had one runt from day 1, he eventually died only because he got dropped on his head a couple of times from being kicked off the doe when we flipped her. Everyone else is fat and happy and needed no special care.

There's occasionally a little tussle over who is top dog..but it doesn't cause any fur pulling or problems.

ONE BIG PROBLEM...recognizing who's kit is whose. whoms. you know what I mean I think if it mattered for purebreds or keeping track, I'd do a rotational breeding schedule so that kits were born a week apart. Or even a couple of days. Then I could tag each litter to keep track.

another problem..they're more wild. If I keep up on picking up the kits every day..they tame down fast..but give it a couple of days of being ignored..and they are less happy at being picked up.

I"ve had no problems with disease, although that can be a killer with a colony. So it's something to be on the lookout for.

Cleaning...once a week, just the corners where they have decided that the CORNER is the litterbox..nd the litterbox shall be moved OUT of the potty corner :roll: I put peatmoss down first, then cover with shavings. For the last month or 2 I've been using straw. Works well. The whole colony area is quite dry, and they often just go on a digging expedition for fun <br /><br />__________ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:17 pm __________<br /><br />Just reread your question...and if you put the girls to work right away on breeding, it will be really easy in a colony. BUT they need to be raised together I think, in order to do well in a colony. I did re-introduce a doe who had been out and about for a few months..that went well. Since they have oodles of hidey holes and running area, they can easily get away from someone who is picking on them.

My groups are getting along well too

I have 2 does who were 4 adn 3 when they came to me that worried me the most - the smaller broken doe is the boss of the whole rabbitry but is happily living with a neutered buck (Dustbunny) the other unspayed doe and 4 kits (who better be going to homes soon I tell ya!!)

the other group got along prior to being spayed nuetered but now that they are done I won't claim them as success - they are a randy buck and 2 does both 18 months old - the kits pop in and out of their run too and they have no problem with them either

I then have 2 bucks living alone (Franklin and Puff Daddy) and one BIG nuetered NZW I need to either buddy up or rehome asap) and one nuetered JW (Popple) who is a real pain in that he attacks ANYBODY he can reach (though he's very very sweet with people and has a lovely creamy coat)

If you have any questions, or clarifications you want..just ask. Brody's colony system is more fluid than mine has been..as in she's been able to combine buns. I'v not had as much experience at that.

Thanks Ann, I'm eagerly waiting to hear back from the breeder/judge to find out a ball park figure, cost-wise, to see if this is feasible! I'm excited though. Got the wheels turning in my mind trying to figure out how I'm going to make it work!

As far as bedding, I'm definitely planning on straw. Isn't that what is commonly used as the bedding material in the solid bottom cages the French systems use?

I personally use straw, well dried grass clippings or hay (seasonally I have more grass hay than anything else for free)

shavings do get caught up in my rabbits but my rabbits don;t have nearly as nice coats as Anns

Straw is, indeed, what the French appear to prefer And it does seem to work extremely well..particularly with rabbits. It doesn't get caught up in fur, and stays clean with rabbits. Many cattle farmers are going to hay as a bedding (specially the guys that SHOW cows) because hay actually absorbs moisture..and a cow emits a LOT of moisture. The straw just keeps the cow patties up off the floor..where the cow then lays in them. And hay smells good.

Straw lets the bunny pellets drop through to the floor, leaving a good clean area on top. I just cleaned out the colony and the top was lovely..underneath was a mixture of all the small bits of feed, hay, wool that came from the nests, and some haydust. oh..and the bunny poos. All dry and nicely protected from the buns themselves. I could have just raked the top layer aside, and scooped up the bottom. One corner was where the urine spot was...and I had put shavings and peatmoss in that corner to prepare for that...so everything was really easy.

Brody, your guys are English...they are DIRT MAGNETS! I watched Hobbes after he was shorn...day one he's all mat free and curly haired..and day two he's ALREADY got shavings and mats in his coat :evil: Great fiber for spinning, but sweet mother...

one is satin one is english and the rest are JW

my choice would be 3 satin and the rest french -LOL

Folks.. cash is at stake here, so I'm hoping you can help me out.

I have all bucks.. German Angoras.. I had intended to breed but this summer I watched Very Qualified People with a Really Nice Rabbitry struggle with issues and heartbreak. I'd asked for two does, in the end, I went with two bucks from the same litter. All the fluff.. none of the heartbreak. Someone else can breed, and I'll support their efforts.

The two boys are currently housed together, and I do not intend to neuter them. In this area it will run me about $80 a pop to neuter these boys.. it ain't happening. They are in a standard 30x36 cage I had built with an extra 4" in height.. which means I can put a stand in there for them to jump up on and there is plenty of headroom.

I have a pen I've made out of those lovely NIC panels, 2 up and linked together, which I set out in the yard. The little ones go in the pen, the older boy (and don't anyone laugh...) walks in a harness. I've introduced them through the grates, but the little ones look remarkably small next to a full grown rabbit, so they haven't met in the pen. But there didn't appear to be any hostility, just a lot of curiosity on everyone's part until the little ones got bored and went back to bouncing. I'd pick the older one up, carry him a distance, put him down.. he'd go right back to the little ones and stand there sniffing and watching. The small ones would rush up to greet him, sticking little noses through the bars... then get bored and go back to eating grass or just wandering around.

I have been told that housing bucks together is not doable.. but what if all you have are bucks? The little ones will grow, the 30x36, even with the extra head room, is not going to be roomy enough, in my opinion, for two. I can have another cage built.. or I can have a set of cages built with end doors that mesh, creating a "double long." Or go completely nuts and have a triple long built. Yea, well... the husband wasn't using the garage anyway, right?

Does anyone have experience in housing bucks together? I'm hoping you can't house bucks together because they'll fight over does.. but if no does are present the issue becomes moot. I don't mind some dominance play... I have dogs, I keep sheep. Ram lambs will crack horns right off each other's heads, blood fountains.. it's a boy thing. Torn flesh I'd have issues with. Mounting and shoving... it's a boy thing. As long as I've got hiding spots in there I'm ok with some pushing and shoving.

But I need to make housing decisions, which means I need to order ether one crate.. or a custom set of two or more. And either way I need to do it before those boys get squashed in their current quarters...

I could be wrong, but I think housing them together would result in massive damage to their wool from all the "boys will be boys" behaviour, even if no actual injuries resulted. I don't think it is a good idea.

yeah, even my NZ buck housed NEXT TO another rabbit, male or female, manages to spray to the ceiling(i was amazed). White fur turns yellow. If you do make cages you may want solid dividers?

Another view

I have separated the girls and boys from the 4.5 month olds now, and the boys are quite happy together. (we're talking Angoras) They're in a large colony setup, indoors, right next to the girls. There are 4 of them, and it's going quite well. So far no one is behaving badly. Since they're on the same level with Chuck (Sr buck), and next to him on one side, I'm considering letting Chuck into their pen.

If you do introduce the young guys to the older, only do it with CLOSE supervision. And give them a LOT of hidey holes, tunnels, platforms to jump onto/into if a dominance thing gets started.

If I turn Chuck loose with the boys, I'll let you know how it goes.

As an aside, with poultry, as long as the hens are elsewhere, the roosters get along fine together. One will establish dominance, and then it's all happy.

So, maybe I just have an extra nasty spraying buck? Probably, LOL, i have never seen this much spraying with my old buck from years ago. He's kinda gross, like a little billy goat. Looking forward to replacing him.

It does seem to be individual. Mine might be getting along so well because they grew up together, although one of them is a return..he was away for about a month.

Peter, my NZ buck, is a real gentleman. never sprays unless he's housed right next to another buck. Then he REALLY lets loose (poor Chuck...ahem) I'm not sure that Chuck even knows HOW to spray anyone :roll: He certainly doesn't mind the boys hanging around.

some bucks are RUDE some woudln't think of spraying and they are lady killers

None of my bucks spray - touch wood!!

Anntann":2pcqi3kp said:

Another view

I have separated the girls and boys from the 4.5 month olds now, and the boys are quite happy together. (we're talking Angoras) They're in a large colony setup, indoors, right next to the girls. There are 4 of them, and it's going quite well. So far no one is behaving badly. Since they're on the same level with Chuck (Sr buck), and next to him on one side, I'm considering letting Chuck into their pen.

If you do introduce the young guys to the older, only do it with CLOSE supervision. And give them a LOT of hidey holes, tunnels, platforms to jump onto/into if a dominance thing gets started.

If I turn Chuck loose with the boys, I'll let you know how it goes.

As an aside, with poultry, as long as the hens are elsewhere, the roosters get along fine together. One will establish dominance, and then it's all happy.

Click to expand...

I still have the two youngsters in the same cage.. and I need to call the cage company that is supposed to be shipping me the double sized cage.. it isn't here yet. When I put them out in the play pen I get some dominance, but the play pen doesn't have places for the dodging and hiding. And (cross fingers) thus far, no spraying at each other.

But my older buck is remarkably mellow when he is around the two smaller ones. Were you able to successfully integrate your older buck with your younger ones in a colony? The cage company is going to get quite a kick out of my ordering a quad.. but it gets COLD up here. I'm thinking other buns to snuggle with is not such a terrible thing.

The bucks are doing fine! There is an occasional "MY FOOD!!!!" andd the "this is MY air you're breathing!" thing, but the youngsters just take off and hide in the box or behind the feed bin. Like your older buck, tho, Chuck is REALLY laid back.

The girls really like to lay down next to each other. I haven't seen the boys doing that yet. They definitely have their own "home"s. I've never seen the black angora go near the young white one's hidey hole. And I've never seen the white guy go near the black ones. Chuck hangs out near the window (sun beams, youknow) and the feeder. If he were human, he'd either be a stoner or a couch potato..I tell ya....:roll: