Alphalfa

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IaJewel

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I have been reading in many posts about feeding alphalfa. I thought I would bring some light to it here in a thread of its own.
Alphalfa isn't really that good for your rabbits. Don't feed it if you didn't pick it right out of the field, even then if your rabbits have a choice, they will eat it last or avoid it. Rabbits need graze above all else. Like horses you can over load them on grains and other feeds. Watch water content in treats, fruits etc. Meadow is the main feed for rabbits. Meadow is a variety of grasses combined to make a natural meadow. Flowers, grass, legumes all make up a meadow, and this is what your rabbit needs more then anything else. Take a patch of your yard to not mow, and plant in it herbs, make sure you know how those herbs effect your rabbit. For example, Lavander will induce labor, Mint will dry up a doe, and so on. Plant be-nine herbs. Timothy, orchard grass and so on are good neutral grasses that your rabbits will love. If you plant a 20x20 patch of mixed herbs, flowers and grasses you will have feed for your rabbits all summer long and spend nothing on rabbit food. My rabbits are getting excellent marks in condition and fur at shows, so the judges (experts) think this plan is working. This is time consuming to pick grass by hand every day for your rabbits, its also nice to have free feed for 6 months of the year. This grass will also stay greed under the snow and can be picked in winter if you don't mind going out in a blizzard to dig for the good stuff. I do this for my house rabbits, but don't see many people doing it. Many of the illness our rabbits get is from the wrong diets. Meadow is the cure for many things, we just have to work with it and make it part of our rabbit habits. Alphalfa is not good for rabbits, only in limited amounts should it be fed. Try the cheaper meadow and see if you don't like it better too.
 
Perhaps, Iajewel, you could provide some documentation for your claim that alfalfa is not good for rabbits.

Everything I've found indicates that alfalfa is perfectly fine for rabbits... as one green in a mix or if fed as hay to rabbits not being fed pellets. It is not a complete diet, of course... no one feed is. In France, there are commercial rabbits being raised for both meat and fur that are being fed on alfalfa hay and grain with excellent results. It is a tremendously successful venture.
http://www.rex-du-poitou.com/

Alfalfa has long been the key ingredient in most commercial pelleted feeds. I no longer use these for my rabbits, but that is not because of the alfalfa. The pellets available to me had animal tallow in them and I do not agree with feeding animal products to herbivores.

In my opinion, the very best, most natural feed available for rabbits is a mix of those invasive European weeds and tree leaves and twigs that wild European rabbits have been eating since the last Ice Age. You'll find them included in the SAFE PLANTS list at the top of this Natural Feeding section.

Herbs, as you note, can be a useful addition to the rabbit's diet and your idea of a bunny meadow is a good one, but I agree wholeheartedly that feeding herbs requires extra knowledge and experience because of the medicinal qualities of these plants.
 
I, too, would be interested in seeing the research on the "no alfalfa". I'm married to a dairy research scientist engineer. One of the things they research TO DEATH is alfalfa. It's considered an almost complete feed..minerals, nutrients, fiber and protein...for cattle, goats, sheep, and rabbits.

My rabbits will go for the alfalfa before anything else. (i'm talking hay here). Is fresh better? yes..it has some few nutrients still in it that will dry out...but alfalfa hay is both high in protein and fiber..which rabbits need. (actually, I have a couple of does who will eat the stems before the leaves, and then eat the leaves)

My animals get a buffet when fed. They're allowed to pick and choose what they need to eat. Barley, wheat, fresh greens (plantain, mulberry, dandelions, parsley, etc.), and alfalfa hay. They always have timothy available. Depending on the day, and the individual rabbit, they'll go from one to another. But they never leave alfalfa..and I have seen them leave grains and even the fresh greens.

when I feed pellets, I go with just timothy hay, because of the reasons Maggie defines.

Herbs...some of the medicinal herbs are good, some aren't, for rabbits. It does take quite a bit of research (or having a mentor) to use herbs successfully...for animals OR yourself :) (My Micheal once made me an herbal tea for my back out of lavender, echinicea, chamomile, AND black cohosh. Sure fixed my back...I couldn't feel a thing for hours! :lol: )
 
I don't have where I read that on hand.. so.. I will call my vet Monday morning and ask him where I can locate the research. I can tell you when given a choice, my rabbits avoid it. That in its self tells me allot. I will however get the info Monday morning when the Vet's office opens.
 
I have noticed out here- as have some of the old time farmers-- wildlife is avoiding the GMO (corn,wheat,) crops!!! Wild animals are avoiding "RoundUp Ready" soybean fields. I bought some hay bales from several sources- In some, my rabbits would not touch the alfalfa, but from other sources- they went for it like candy.
Animals will avoid 'dead' food!! I have bird seed out here- the birds are only eating a few types- not all of it!
 
Certainly a possible explanation, Terry. My hay tends to come from local farmers who are selling their surplus after setting aside what their own animals need. Small farms, older methods, perhaps.
 
Pie gets alfalfa cubes to supplement his steady supply of Timothy Hay. He loves 'em and they have a nice dose of protein as well. He could overdue it with the alfalfa if I let him though... he'd eat it like it was going out of style- loves it. But,I do prefer the Timothy, however, as it is much better for maintaining his GI health.:)
 
Frosted Rabbits":2ekd1gdl said:
I have noticed out here- as have some of the old time farmers-- wildlife is avoiding the GMO (corn,wheat,) crops!!! Wild animals are avoiding "RoundUp Ready" soybean fields. I bought some hay bales from several sources- In some, my rabbits would not touch the alfalfa, but from other sources- they went for it like candy.
Animals will avoid 'dead' food!! I have bird seed out here- the birds are only eating a few types- not all of it!
Unfortunately, especially in the US, we will be seeing more and more GMO alfalfa now that unlimited planting of it has been aproved. I foresee the time when the only alfalfa available will be GMO as it slowly contaminates the other fields.
Alafalfa in general does contain a low level of toxins naturally (as does many another plant rabbits naturally eat) but nothing your buns metabolism can't easily handle. Elements that are toxic in large amounts can actually be beneficial in lower amounts. Personally I prefer red clover as a crop for rabbits. It contains a lower level of toxins and just as much protein.<br /><br />__________ Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:21 pm __________<br /><br />
Pickles":2ekd1gdl said:
Pie gets alfalfa cubes to supplement his steady supply of Timothy Hay. He loves 'em and they have a nice dose of protein as well. He could overdue it with the alfalfa if I let him though... he'd eat it like it was going out of style- loves it. But,I do prefer the Timothy, however, as it is much better for maintaining his GI health.:)
You're right there. Timothy hay has a lot more indigestibel fiber, which rabbits need to keep the hair they swallow from forming intestinal blockage. It helps keep things moving along.
 
]
Unfortunately, especially in the US, we will be seeing more and more GMO alfalfa now that unlimited planting of it has been aproved. I foresee the time when the only alfalfa available will be GMO as it slowly contaminates the other fields.
Alafalfa in general does contain a low level of toxins naturally (as does many another plant rabbits naturally eat) but nothing your buns metabolism can't easily handle. Elements that are toxic in large amounts can actually be beneficial in lower amounts. Personally I prefer red clover as a crop for rabbits. It contains a lower level of toxins and just as much protein.
************************************************************************* ;)

Alfalfa is Allelopathic- so GMO is probably a way to be able to plant it in the same field every year, making the harvested hay more uniform/consistent in makeup. The toxin that the allelopathic plant produces is probably what you are thinking of, and also the freezing issue- never feed frozen alfalfa to your animals. Who would think that freezing a plant could make it poisonous?
 
MaggieJ":55o7wkrb said:
I wonder if the wild cottontails that hang out in our alfalfa patch stop eating it when there is a frost.

I think It would need to be a frost that destroys the cell walls- in other words, a 'killing frost' I do know of horses that have died as a result of foraging alfalfa after a snowfall. That is why it is not recommended for pasture purposes for horses. Don't think I have seen it in cow pastures, either, unless it has escaped to them.

Oddly, for farmers and gardeners, a 'killing frost' is one that is hard enough to knock a tomato plant out of commission. Seems tomato plants are the 'standard' for measuring ambient temperature safety.
 
Fair enough. The alfalfa here is pretty straggly by the time we get a killing frost. I'll have to try to observe the cottontails more closely this fall and see what they are eating. I watch them quite a bit in spring and summer and have learned a lot from them. :)
 
Anntann":26zw5k3y said:
Well, Pie is one of those SPECIAL rabbits, tho. hmm..have you taught him to raise those ears and fly yet? (just wondering...)
LOL! :lol: :lol:

********************************
All this talk of the GMO seeds (Monsanto owns the "RoundUp Ready" soy bean)... makes me think of the documentary "Food, Inc.". Gives a fresh desire to dive in head-first into self-sufficiency!
If I believed for one moment that Alfalfa, in itself, was harmful to my bun I wouldnt let him eat it. Personally, I would never use it as the foundation for my bun's diet, but as a supplement I think it is very good and have had no complications whatsoever.
 
Frosted Rabbits":2rl40bwz said:
MaggieJ":2rl40bwz said:
I wonder if the wild cottontails that hang out in our alfalfa patch stop eating it when there is a frost.

I think It would need to be a frost that destroys the cell walls- in other words, a 'killing frost' I do know of horses that have died as a result of foraging alfalfa after a snowfall. That is why it is not recommended for pasture purposes for horses. Don't think I have seen it in cow pastures, either, unless it has escaped to them.

Oddly, for farmers and gardeners, a 'killing frost' is one that is hard enough to knock a tomato plant out of commission. Seems tomato plants are the 'standard' for measuring ambient temperature safety.
Interesting, Terry. I grew up at a large hunter/jumper and breeding stable, and worked in the industry for decades, and most of our winter pastures were alfalfa hay fields. The horses were turned out on them for the winter. Biggest problem was that the horses would graze them down all the way to the root...and that kills the plant. We had to be sure to rotate pastures every year.
 
What area of the country? HAY in the field may be safe-- but NO ONE around here puts alfalfa in their pasture- if the stuff freezes horses get sick-- Once it is hay, and in the barn loft, it can get as cold as anything, no issue--but by that point, the cell walls aren't going to break down. beleive me, if alfalfa were safe as winter pasture up here, Bob would have planted it- all 300 head of horses and cattle were pastured year round --(fewer than 50 cows) he detested buying feed- and all those overweight animals on the place said he was doing right!!! (Bob never got rid of a horse that made him an income-- if it worked fairs, it had a home for life, and he LOVED Longhorn cattle)
 
geez. Again, I say "interesting". Our neighbor farmer, who's been farming for over 50 years now, turns his cows out on the hay fields next to our property every winter. After the last haying, he just opens up the gates and they browse the fields until Spring. His alfalfa is as close to 100% as you can get in the field. His only concern every year is that he keep the numbers of cattle down on the field so that they don't kill the roots. They root around in the snow to find the greens underneath. Just like our horses did. :shrug:

I've had Mike ask around at Dairy Forage for some scientific answers so...stay tuned.
 
As promised I said I would ask my vet where I got into my head that Alfalpha should be limited with rabbits.. He is in the middle of calving season and said unless something is dying.. he's busy. sooooo.. .I googled my little heart out and .. You guys are right. I couldn't find a single thing that says its bad or harmful in any way. I have no idea where I got that into my head. I know its been years, so maybe some old article from years back? Who knows.. but.. Your right Its good for them.. go figure.. and it even gets rid of bad colestrol.. who knew..
 
Ok, I've asked a couple of the scientists doing research on pasture grazing and alfalfa breeding about allelopathicy and alfalfa's toxicity. The response was "Huh?"

The grazing scientist said that the only thing he could think of being a problem is that the freezing/cell disruption could cause increased digestion rates and possibly bloat. If the material is stemmy or dry hay is available, bloat is unlikely. He also said that this is HIGHLY unlikely in monogastrics, like rabbits.

The plant breeder doesn't know of any documentation on alfalfa's toxicity to animals. Alfalfa's allelopathic properties means its toxic to other plants, and to itself eventually. No effect on animals. The only problem with alfalfa that he had heard of was that there MIGHT be a link to photo-sensitivity due to eating fresh alfalfa, but that's not the problem that was being discussed.

Another point against frozen being poisonous: One of the standard practices in getting a 4th or 5th crop of alfalfa in northern climates is to wait for a hard freeze. You then harvest the frozen alfalfa. The hard freeze causes the plant to become dormant, and the harvest will not damage it. If you harvest before the freeze, the plant will try to regrow, and expend it energy reseves, just before winter. In spring, the plant has no stored energy, and will not regrow and die. Considering that the 2nd or 3rd year of a newly established alfalfa field is the most productive, you want to give the plants all the help they can get to overwinter. Anyways... this alfalfa is fed just like the rest of the harvest, and no deaths/diminished productivity occurs.

Frosted Rabbits":10herk01 said:
]
Alfalfa is Allelopathic- so GMO is probably a way to be able to plant it in the same field every year, making the harvested hay more uniform/consistent in makeup. The toxin that the allelopathic plant produces is probably what you are thinking of, and also the freezing issue- never feed frozen alfalfa to your animals. Who would think that freezing a plant could make it poisonous?

No: Roundup Ready alfalfa allows them to spray their alfalfa fields to control weeds. GMO alfalfa is still alleopathic, and you never plant alfalfa on alfalfa. (or at least you shouldn't)

As for the OP's statement that alfalfa isn't a good feed for rabbits... I totally disagree. If anything, its "too good." Rabbits can live on browse, which is very poor nutritionally. Alfalfa, on the other hand, is fantastically nutritious. It provides all the nutrients you need to live. The only problem is that if you give too much of it, just like pellets, the rabbits can get overweight. Speaking of pellets... what's the number one ingredient of many of them? Alfalfa.

Just like any animal, rabbits need the proper diet. Controlled intake of very good food, unlimited amounts of poorer food, or a combination of both work. As rabbit owners, it's our job to see they get fed properly. Alfalfa is a very good part of the diet, in my opinion.

Michael
 
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