Almost accused of poor welfare of rabbit.

As some of you will know I have a male rabbit who lives indoors all the time. Today in the pet shop the manager said that the rabbit needs to go out each day and that me keeping it in is more or less cruel. So I bought a harness and I do not think I am going to get in on without hurting him as he is strong and it obviously scares him a lot. I would really appreciate some advice here please.

Many Thanks

John

Make it as big as it will go, and the get it on him as quickly as possible. Once it's on, you can pet him and adjust it slowly. Like any other piece of "hardware" it needs to be tight enough to stay on, but loose enough that it doesn't constrict him or restrict breathing. Then give him a little while running around IN the house with it on, to make sure he's not going to lose his mind, or manage to get it off. Once he's been outside on the leash a time or two, he'll become accustomed to "harness goes on, rabbit goes out" and not fight as much.

Once he starts going outside, though, you're going to have more of a concern with parasites - fleas, ticks, mosquitoes, internal parasites, etc. I dust my outdoor rabbits with DE weekly, to prevent any irritants like that.

Today in the pet shop the manager said that the rabbit needs to go out each day and that me keeping it in is more or less cruel

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That is ridiculous !!!

Is it considered cruel in the UK to keep cats indoors too? Over here most shelters wont let you adopt a cat if you admit you'll let them outside.

As long as your rabbit is allowed to run about the house you're letting him meet his physical and mental needs

That was my first response bad habit and I am annoyed that I have spent £5 on the lead that looks to small. I might try the lead again but he was not happy and I am worried about what he can pick up outside. Dood my rabbit has a big room to himself and I have a big living room 16ft by 12ft so he can run and jump. Very annoyed about the advice and wished I had come on here first.

Many Thanks

I know animals are kept outside more in the UK but that's just a matter of opinion. In the US you get in more trouble for having them outside. Most pet rabbits and many cats are never allowed outside. Some of the cats have issues with it but I've never seen the small animals really notice. Aside from parasite problems you will have to limit fresh food intake and adjust slowly or he could get diarrhea and bloat. Potentially life threatening.

Keeping a pet rabbit indoors is not cruel. The guy used his personal opinion and clubbed you over the head with it.

Personally, I'd take the harness back, and take time to consider whether I was going to let the rabbit outside. I'd take the time to do some research so I could be prepared for the complications being outdoors can bring.

Sorry you had to deal with that pet shop owner. :razz2: It'd be nice if he confined himself to facts, or at least presented the various options to you.

It was actually a she who fobbed me off. I feel like printing off these replies and taking them to the shop tomorrow with that lead and tell her Im keeping him inside. I have given him a safe place and plenty of food and they want me to stress him out by trussing him up in a lead and taking him out in the open. I bet I wont get a refund though.

Thanks Again

Rabbits are not cats or dogs. Some don't mind being out on a lead, but it's the exception rather than the rule. A terrified rabbit on a lead could potentially break it's own back or neck. (A cat or dog is unlikely to do this.)

I take my own rabbits out on the lawn with a leash on occasion, but only those rabbits that really like to be out.

Most bunnies would rather feel secure in their own safe environment, be it cage, hutch, house, or colony.

Change is often quite scary to rabbits and should be done gradually if you feel it's necessary.
Anything that stresses your rabbit can leave them more susceptible to disease.

Fresh grass really can be dangerous if your rabbit isn't accustomed to it too, just like any dietary change.

Well today has been a big learning lesson and to be honest I have had the rabbit for a while now and should have known this by doing lots of research ( which I will start doing today ) instead of relying on young staff who might not know as much as we think they know. But really impressed by the quick replies and next thing I will ask is about treats.

Thanks

Some don't even like to leave their cage. Kido spent years in the condo sitting just inside the open door of his cage on an old T-shirt watching everything or shoving his ball around. We never closed his cage. He never wanted to come out. Amako would get highly concerned if removed from what we called the Amako cave. It was a plywood cage sealed with enamel with an open front. It ran under the frame holding the hedgehog cages. I have had a few though that were horrible escape artists and never wanted to be in their cage so it depends. Do what you know your rabbit is happy and healthy with. Everyone has a different opinion on how to keep an animal.

Everyone else already said it all. Young person at the pet store doesn't know enough about rabbits if she thinks they would enjoy being on a lead and going to strange places. Most rabbits enjoy being outside but not on a lead, being restrained on a lead is frustrating for them and scary. Maybe an outdoor exercise pen with a place to hide would be a fun thing for your rabbit- but he's probably pretty happy if he's got a room to himself.

People tend to anthropomorphize animals too much. "I would hate to be cooped up in the house all of the time, so my rabbit/cat/hamster/goldfish must feel the same way!"

The reality is that they have no concept of the life other than they are accustomed to- and even those that are taken from one environment to another don't sit around and pine for what they once had. Animals live in the present, not thinking of the future or the past.

It sounds like your rabbit has a great life, so keep up the good work!

Thanks everyone for reassuring me. Just popped in to see how he was and he was in one of those dead poses wth his head straight out but resting on the floor. Would have took a picture but he his up and about now. Anyway I checked on him and fussed him a little and his eyes opened and then just closed again so hopefully he was having a nice comfortable sleep. As I said he is up now.

Now if you dont mind. Yesterday I gave him a whole egg biscuit ( Shaws ) That was the first time I have gave him that amount. Now on the box it says place one in the cage to be eaten as needed. Prior to that I have given him a quarter piece a day. I also always let him eat it from my hand as it gets him to come to me. So the box says when needed but what do you suggest I give him each day. The same shop manager said once every 3rd day, if that is the case is their anything I can give to him each day as I like to give him something to look forward to.

Thanks as Always

Side effect":2umn4fgt said:

Yesterday I gave him a whole egg biscuit ( Shaws ) That was the first time I have gave him that amount. Now on the box it says place one in the cage to be eaten as needed.

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I am not familiar with that product. Can you list the ingredients?

Side effect":2umn4fgt said:

is their anything I can give to him each day as I like to give him something to look forward to.

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Take a look at the Safe Plants list in the Natural Feeding Forum for ideas. safe-plants-for-rabbits-list-t55.html

If your rabbit is not used to fresh foods, or you are introducing a new item, start with a very small amount (maybe a 1" x 1" piece) and gradually increase the amount offered every day so his system can adjust to it.

Fruit and sweet vegetables such as carrots should be considered as "rabbit candy" and should only be given once or twice a week.

Whole eggs, wheat flour, sugar, natural flavours colours and preservatives. ECC additives.

Haha, MSD beat me to it, but here's my post anyway:

He sounds like a happy bunny to me.

Taking a bunny outside is a personal decision -- the enrichment for the bunny balanced against his anxiety and the risks of being a bunny outside (mites, parasites, tummy troubles from too much grass too quickly, escaping, hawk swooping from the sky). It's entirely up to you, and he can be perfectly content inside all the time. Sure, he might enjoy being outside (if he could ever get used to the harness), but if he never knows about it, what's there to miss?

About the egg biscuits. I'd actually never heard of them, and had to look them up. Looking at their ingredients, they look to be high in carbohydrates, as the second and third items on the list are whole wheat flour and sugar. I would definitely consider this treat material. Don't rely on the rabbit to eat it as needed for protein. He might very well wolf down every bit of it you are willing to give him.

Does the rabbit need these biscuits? What is his normal diet (if pellets, please tell us the brand, variety (for example, Manna Pro Gro or Manna Pro Sho), and how much you feed)? Is he neutered (lower protein requirements, generally)?

If the rabbit is getting enough protein from good-quality pellets, he doesn't need the biscuits at all. You could cut them out completely, and just give the bun a half slice of apple, or pear, or banana, or a little dandelion (greens or blooms) or bull thistle or or or... Lots of possibilities. You can even get horse treats, which are probably cheaper than the biscuits.

But we do need to know what you are feeding the bun, first. Then we can help you figure all that out.

The pellets are selective junior.

One of the vets I spoke to based at our local pets at home told me not to feed him banana as their not his natural food of the wild.

But thinking about it now, hes not part of the wild so surely the odd slice wont harm him

Thanks

Side effect":3f4scvf2 said:

The pellets are selective junior.

One of the vets I spoke to based at our local pets at home told me not to feed him banana as their not his natural food of the wild.

But thinking about it now, hes not part of the wild so surely the odd slice wont harm him

Thanks

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Pellets aren't part of a rabbit's wild food either. It's a good thing we don't keep wild rabbits as pets

Banana has lots of sugar, so I wouldn't make it a daily treat, but an occasional slice won't harm him.

If you want a really healthy treat to buy, see if a local grocery stocks affordable bunches of fresh parsley or cilantro.

I can get a good sized bundle for $1 here, and it's something they can enjoy every day. Just remember to start every new food slowly.

Egg and sugar aren't exactly good rabbit food. If banana isn't natural what the heck is egg? I wouldn't feed it at all to mine. Horse treats are usually good. Sometimes you do have to watch out for too much sugar content but as a treat they work well. Mine get a small peppermint treat nearly daily. Fruit I wouldn't give more than once or twice a week in normal circumstances. Herbs like the cilantro and parsley are safer or low sugar forages. Berry plants are a great source of forage. They can eat leaves and stems of most including things like raspberry canes with thorns. It doesn't bother the rabbits.

Side effect":2ry2063r said:

The pellets are selective junior.

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Crude protein 17.0%, Crude fibre 19.0%, Crude oils and fats 4.0%, Crude ash 8.0%, Calcium 0.8%, Sodium 0.3%, Phosphorus 0.5%.

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17% protein, I promise you the bunny has absolutely no need of the egg biscuits. Bucks and many pregnant and nursing does do just fine on 16%, though some do better on 17 - 18%. A house bunny (especially if he's neutered) is just fine at 17%. I tried my herd on 14% horse feed once, but they just didn't thrive on it... in spite of the fact that some people can raise meat rabbits on 12% horse feed. 17% is plenty of protein for your bunny.

Those pellets are a complete diet for your rabbit. Technically, he needs nothing else at all. Many choose to feed hay, because bunnies like to chew, and hay gives them something safe to chew on. Also, it helps with gut motility, keeping things (especially fur from grooming) moving through the system, rather than causing blockages.

Then, of course, many of us also love giving treats. A raisin or two, Cheerios, very small bits of fruit or vegetables, safe weeds... they make the world go 'round for a little bunny. I have whole oats on hand, from having to change my whole herd to another food quickly, and our house bunny is head over heals in love with oats. He knows he will get a small treat of oats when it's time to put him in his cage for the night, and he'll often sit in his bin, waiting for us to notice and come give him his oats and put him up. :lol: If he finds a Cheerio in his bowl, he goes bonkers.

You just have to be careful with the treats, as most of them are loaded with sugar. Some treats aren't, though, like dandelion greens. Those you just have to be careful with at the beginning, start small and increase slowly.

Side effect":2ry2063r said:

One of the vets I spoke to based at our local pets at home told me not to feed him banana as their not his natural food of the wild.

But thinking about it now, hes not part of the wild so surely the odd slice wont harm him

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Zass":2ry2063r said:

Pellets aren't part of a rabbit's wild food either. It's a good thing we don't keep wild rabbits as pets

Banana has lots of sugar, so I wouldn't make it a daily treat, but an occasional slice won't harm him.

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Precisely. These are domesticated European rabbits, not the same as our wild cottontails.

Banana SKINS go over quite well, too, and don't have quite as much sugar.

You can cut corn cobs (after you eat the corn) into several sections and then freeze them, for summer treats. Don't do these very often, though, because of the high sugar content of corn.

akane":2ry2063r said:

Berry plants are a great source of forage. They can eat leaves and stems of most including things like raspberry canes with thorns. It doesn't bother the rabbits.

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This sounds crazy, but Akane speaks the truth. Do you have rose bushes, or raspberry or blackberry bushes? Trim your rose bush, and give bits of trimming to your bunny. Thorns and all, seriously. Bull thistles are murder, but the rabbits don't care. They eat it.